In this episode, our hosts feature Carla Cordova who joined the conversation on self-love by reflecting on her experiences.
Rachel and Mandi sat with Carla who shared the events surrounding her relationships and divorce as well as her quest to find answers regarding the impact of these issues on her spirituality and general well-being.
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
In this episode, our hosts feature Carla Cordova who joined the conversation on self-love by reflecting on her experiences.
Rachel and Mandi sat with Carla who shared the events surrounding her relationships and divorce as well as her quest to find answers regarding the impact of these issues on her spirituality and general well-being.
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
We're back back again. That was so good. I'm so proud of you guys.
Speaker 2:I made Rachel say hello before me today and she did not like it. I didn't like it, which is weird, because I love the way she does it. You did so good. I said if it sounds weird we'll just laugh at it. Besides, you owe me for those 80 million hikes you've made me do over the course of our friendship.
Speaker 1:You're right. It's only fair. We have to keep the force balanced and make each other do uncomfortable things all the fucking time.
Speaker 2:And you did. You did so good, you even sing a little song.
Speaker 1:And then I was like wait, how does that?
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Spill Your Guts podcast. Everybody, it's Mandy here with Rachel Prairie. We have a special guest here today. We talked about this last week. This is episode eight. The Ocho right, jesse.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we made it. What's that from dodgeball? Yeah, okay, jesse, come in. How with the freaking movies?
Speaker 3:All right one of my phase.
Speaker 2:It's really good actually. Ben Stiller, yeah, don't talk to Carla about Zoolander, the whole thing. That's what that's her thing. But with me and or with her and my husband geek out over Zoolander. It's an epic fight in our friendship. I do not think it's funny. I'm sorry, i don't think it's funny.
Speaker 2:Everyone, i'm going to use this opportunity to introduce Carla Cordova To the podcast. So, listen, no pressure. We had you on because we want you to spill your guts. Are you ready for this? I'm ready.
Speaker 2:I invited you to come be on the podcast and I think it doesn't really matter because I was going to make you be on this podcast anyway one way or another. But specifically, what we talked about last week sort of like this, this concept of this self love and this healing work we're doing all the stuff we talk about on this podcast and what we actually just talk about like between the three of us and our friendship, right, and we're just broadcasting it live for the people. It just really was a perfect segue for to get you on here to share, because you have been Amazing. I have been watching you on your journey really just in the past year, this like healing that you've been on and you've been doing so much work in this area that I wanted to force you to come on and share, because it's really special and important and I think it's like like we're finding doing this podcast. This is a conversation that a lot of us are having, whether on a podcast or elsewhere, so I'm going to introduce you to everybody.
Speaker 2:This is Carla. She's been my best friend since kindergarten. You guys, we were in the same kindergarten class together, miss Caprol, miss Caprol, elm Press, elementary. Carla, i thought she was the coolest ever because she got to her sports bras and I was just like you were abroad, she's like you don't. And I was like, and listen, she brought me a Wonder Woman sports bra from her stash at home and gave it to me and I wore it in secret and I got in trouble because I was wearing it under my neck, down on my.
Speaker 2:I'm almost like what is that? where did that come from? I'm like five. She's showing up to bedtime with a bra that she didn't purchase, like what the hell? that's how I've started. Never been the same. Fast forward to seventh grade. This bitch is like trying to teach me how to do eyeliner. You know, before we go to the skating rink and I've got like a ponytail on the direct top of my head with like the two little tendrils you guys can't see me right now, but you know the like strings of hair you would have on the sides in the 90s. I thought I was hella fly because Carla was like my stylist.
Speaker 1:You she was hey, she was our stylist in Vegas. It might be another podcast. It's gonna be, but listen, i've been in the shadow of this busy forever she's been keeping me cool, she's been keeping me stylish, and now I'm making her come and spill her guts on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Carla, welcome, thank you for being willing. I know I've said I've used the word force and bully, but, but you are actually willing to come and talk about this. So spill your guts, girl. Tell us stuff. Do you believe that you have to love yourself before you can love anyone else?
Speaker 3:I believe that you do, and I I would say that just to cut to the chase, because when things don't go the way you had imagined, it's really hard to figure out. First of all, like who the hell? you are right, you're absolutely. I have literally put my entire everything into this person, making sure they're fed, happy, healthy. And then, when that's just all gone, it's kind of like well, shit, what now? what now? like I've been doing that for somebody else. I'm not healthy. I'm physically, mentally, spiritually, spiritually, right, not healthy because, you know, you just kind of shift that whole energy and focus on this relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny that you say spiritually, because last time last week I did share that like I got married so young to like essentially the first person I ever dated, because I was spiritually in church culture and that did have an effect on, like the choices I was making and so for me it it panned out because Mikey and I are both rebellious and we've sort of evolved out out of that together. Would you say that you experience that same kind of pressure, or tell me a little bit about that when you mean spiritually?
Speaker 3:yeah, i mean like like overall in life, not just this project, but like, yes, you know, my marriage to my son's dad was kind of like you've got to do the right, you know quote right thing, and so you know, that's kind of how you end up getting married when you're pregnant and you know and young, and then, like even after that, i think I had this spiritual expectation for myself with my girls dad okay, i'm never doing that again, i'm not getting divorced like this. Is it that it didn't matter what any like what he said or did, i was just gonna fucking make it. I was gonna make it and obviously well, not obviously, people don't know that are listening but that was a hard relationship and that did not work is that what prompted you to go on this journey?
Speaker 3:well, i think that's what prompted me to to press in and it's what helped me discover this, this God in me, and not this tyrannical kind of your. You know that this God that is, you know that we talk about like this insecure, like I'm nobody without you. I'm, you know, like I'm less than I'm, this and that, so pressing in and kind of being at my bottom, like doing the work in a prayer room, like praying and and yelling at God and and just being so honest and being at my, my, my bottom. But but like him and I use, you know, like the masculine language because of my foundation but like him, just like keep going, like encouraging it and just like listening and taking it, and like, just like knowing me as a creation.
Speaker 2:And like him, like you being a part of the source. Yes, of all, yeah.
Speaker 3:So so, actually, though, that you would think that would have been it, but I so like God was already like changing that relationship. And then I, in in 2019, in the midst of COVID no, 2020, in the midst of COVID I had probably the best relationship of my life, the best a man that was kind, considerate, fun, just very easy, like the best. Like things went so fast because it was just click, click, click. You know, like we waited about six months and then we introduced each other to the kids and that was easy, yeah, and then, like a month later, we like we're like well, let's kind of smash the kids together, let's see how that goes. Easy, kids got along great, they like you know, just everything was so easy.
Speaker 3:And then I that like scared him. Right, he was married for 16 years and I was his first relationship outside of that. It just it scared him and I understand it now. I understood it at the time. But obviously, like I went from this like perfect in my eyes is like perfect everything that like all of the boxes, right, you guys talk about that on the podcast as your number one fan. I know that. Thank you hashtag. Reluctant to be a girl, she gets a custom shirt, like I know other things, no, so I got it and it's. It was hard and I thought in that heartbreak, like true heartbreak, not just, like you know, like in the previous relationship, i was so lonely, but I was in a relationship. This was like the first real heartbreak. Actually, i can say that, i think a year and a half later, wow. And so that's when it was like okay, what am I missing? do you think?
Speaker 2:that I mean, obviously the ending of that relationship was a catalyst, but also, like, do you think it was also like as like a spiritual crisis to? yeah, i mean, i that like kind of led you to self love.
Speaker 3:Yes, and and I can, i can say that with assurance, because you know, like, what do you do when you're in a crisis like you, kind of you revert, you're like in your caveman brain, right, you're like I don't know what I'm doing and you just, like you, go to what you know. And so for me, that was the Bible, that was this. You know, like I was, i already had a better relationship. It wasn't just like, oh, i'm going to church, but it was I. I didn't know what else to do and I opened the Bible and that's kind of that. That really is like how this started. Right, because your project, my project, yeah, because I thought, okay, i've got to get back to basics. And I and I, just I didn't, i didn't even know what else to do. Like, on the app, the Bible app, i typed in like marriage and I typed in like divorce and I I thought what am I? what am I not doing right here?
Speaker 2:do you think you were having like some shame?
Speaker 3:I yeah, i mean the shame came from not knowing my value, not knowing my worth, not loving myself, because I thought how could this person just throw me away? how can like? it was great and I know that was hard for him, but it was like, oh, he would just rather not, he was just rather not. And feeling shame, like oh, there must be, because I wasn't sure that I am deserving of my dream, of my mind, heart, spirit.
Speaker 2:So that's like what prompted you to go seek. Now you guys have to know. Rachel Rachel has not heard this yet.
Speaker 3:You haven't heard the story, Rachel.
Speaker 1:No and listen, I'm getting emotional because I am not surprised like how the three of us came together when we did.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we were living very similar experiences. I mean like to a tee, honestly, like how your story and what you were feeling like resonates. I even was thinking I don't know why I was thinking about something else earlier today. I think maybe like anticipating what we might talk about, and I was like you know what I've said to myself several times when I'm in a bad relationship friendship, like I know it but like something in my brain is like yeah, but you're built for this, like you can handle it.
Speaker 1:You can hang on like they're the weaker person, for lack of a better word. You can carry the team Like that's what you're supposed to do You're like that's? your job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, no, i think you know what it's funny because obviously I've had time to reflect on that relationship And I wouldn't say that I like prided myself on. But one of the things that I like in the beginning was like, oh, i thought, oh well, this was meant for us to be, because he had so many things come up that paralleled like my relationship as far as like the way that that person treated him, and so then he was going through these firsts, right, like the first time, like having to be around the other person and the ex's life as the other person in their relationship, you know, like all of these things, and it was just like I could give him advice and just say, well, this is how I did it. And he would be like, yes, i did that and thank you, and it was just like I thought, like you kind of coached him through that time. Do you feel like, well, not even that, but just I think I was also somebody that I was like I understand, yeah, and I know that sucks And like one of the things was like, hey, like you have to go, do this thing And I know that that person's going to be there and it's going to sting.
Speaker 3:It's going to sting the first time, then you're going to go the second time, still going to sting, and then you're going to go the third time. It stinks, but it's like not the same. And then you go and then one time like eventually you're just like, oh, this doesn't sting any harder It's, it doesn't matter, because it's not about them And because you don't want your ex back, right, and you're certainly like, yeah, you guys deserve each other every time, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:But well, it's irritating, i will not comment.
Speaker 3:Thank you, mm-hmm, but you know so it wasn't like I was like coaching, this is what you have to do. It was just more of that, like that intimacy of I 100% like no Understanding, because I literally went through that This is how I did it And this is this is how I felt And this could happen And and he was like very appreciative And it was like I think that also just added to the Oh, you're Carly, you're great, you know like. Oh, this is the you know and you know because you can, you can always ask your friends, but if they've never been in that situation, it's kind of like well, maybe Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 2:it's like not the same.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Or it's like Oh, fuck that guy, You know who who acts like that?
Speaker 2:Not me. Yeah, so also also.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, Can I say that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, We are. we are registered as explicit. This is explicit.
Speaker 3:Okay. Cause I've run a couple, but you know we're trying to get sponsored still by Amber.
Speaker 1:Amber Gromby, he was not currently listening.
Speaker 3:I'm going to make it happen. Hey, those nerves ropes. By the way I tried them. I'm a believer.
Speaker 2:Thank you, but not superior to sweet tart ropes. I beg to differ. Okay, well, that'll be another podcast. Okay, cause I feel very passionately otherwise.
Speaker 3:So, okay, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:So I wasn't coaching, but when that ended and I and I had I still because of like what he was going through, i think, Rachel, what you were saying about like Oh, i can take this on and I can do it, i'm strong I think it did turn into that for me.
Speaker 3:He would have like these hard things and not necessarily pull back. He was very good at communication, but I could tell when he transferred money into his ex's account for child support and alimony, like I could just tell you know, it's like one of those things you're like Oh, alimony, okay, you know, like, like that day, oh, like 5,500 deep, oh, whoa, a month, bro, sorry, whoops, this person probably also does not follow me, so it's okay, this person and Abercrombie And Abercrombie. So when that ended, it was like, Oh, wait a minute, like I've been giving you everything right, like like I've like hung in there and I've like even I think I started putting some of the things that I wanted, or like wanted to say like just aside, cause I knew he was like going through some hard things, and then it just kind of got to a I would even Oh, i have a hard question for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, i'm going to like interject as your lifelong best friend. who knows this shit? Do you think? because in that time and space you were like this is it? Yes, and I'm going to, i'm making this fit and work. Yeah, do you feel like a part of you wasn't showing up as your authentic self because you were trying to preserve this special thing that that felt, that you were feeling was happening?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I think. You know, like, talking to you about it even in the past, it was kind of like this you know, like I, I was mostly authentic, i think I would like to say, because you're always authentic, baby. Well, you know, like like okay, now I finally have this thing that I've always wanted, and it's like great And all the things like Oh, but if he knows too much or he like sees too much, then it's then. Then he's just definitely like not going to. So I think there's probably a part of that because, especially in that moment, i didn't have that self competence.
Speaker 2:Well, like how long? how long is too long? Like you got to put your best foot forward right, whenever you meet somebody. Like first impressions, right, and this is a question for everyone. Like at what point is putting your best foot forward and striving for that? like masking and not being, like letting the person that you're building a relationship with see, like all the parts of you, yeah, Like this last person that you know, like first day I was like, okay, listen, yeah, she, literally she's got a different ball.
Speaker 3:I'm like like like, if, like this is like like, what are your non-negotiables? Here's mine, you know, like I don't know, i think I'm just in such a place where it's like this is so terrible.
Speaker 2:So like that loss really sort and and the faith crisis, like all at once it's all a swirl, right? We've talked about this so many times in different ways. Like it's like you know, it can't just be weight loss to go to my cousin's wedding, right. Right, it's like we all know. I use that as an analogy all the time because everybody understands like the difference in energy. Like when you're just trying to lose 20 pounds because you got to go somewhere and you don't want to feel like a dumbass in front of people, you're going to put in different energy and effort and kind of knowing that it's not going to. Like it's just like a band-aid, right, you're just going to do what you can By any means necessary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well not any means.
Speaker 2:You're making me panic over here. Uh-huh, i'm not trying to hike, oh, but it's like the same thing, right, like to. Actually there's a difference between like wellness and like fitness and then weight loss. Yeah, those are not the same things. So if we sort of apply that same logic to relationships and self-love, which is all connected, like that's what this whole Spill Your Guts podcast is about, because everything is connected to everything and this is why we might be mentally ill, but that's for another episode Jesse's like good God, let me out of here. But if you apply that to me out of here, am I taking crazy?
Speaker 1:pills, but God too.
Speaker 2:I'm just not sure what sound effects I can use with certain comments. What, what, maurice? But if you kind of apply the same logic to relationships, it's like, yes, you can put your best foot forward and try to present Like in all the ways, put your best foot forward and your best self, but really truly, what's what? what is deep down in there is the real you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and unless you like, accept that within, nobody else can yeah outside of yourself, and so do you feel like that's like the place that you've been working from now the answers.
Speaker 3:Yes, i think going through that breakup in particular and then like pressing, like really pressing in and like Doing this project, doing all that stuff, really showed me actually that there were so many pieces and and it, like you said, it's all a circle, it's it's all the same topic, because it was like, oh, it wasn't just because of this relationship that you now Feel lost and don't know who you are. It's like remember, like when you were in middle school and you didn't think anybody would ever think you're beautiful.
Speaker 2:Oh, you remember when you were, you didn't get a candy gram either.
Speaker 3:I'm in Ms Voskiel's class looking at my leg, thinking I'm huge, you know. It's like like it really did, like like unpack all of these things that like you just don't like. I feel like I never really even Thought about until I was like so Fucking wounded, mm-hmm, oh. And then it was like, oh, let's like we you got to scoop that wound because it's just also she's a doctor, everyone.
Speaker 3:So yeah, the Medical imagery, we're just gonna, we're just gonna really it's actually my emphasis, it's my favorite thing to like reference because, like a wound like festers right and it like smells and it's like if you don't clean that shit out It just keeps going. But you have to clean it to the raw, to the raw tissue And you got to scrub it and that shit fucking hurts. Oh, it's so good because you have to.
Speaker 1:You have to get it to that raw most healthy place And if you don't, you did Jack, you know, because I was thinking about, like like the kind of more toxic bad relationships I had versus this last one I had was similar Carla. Like Like really thought I was gonna be with this person forever and like very deep, deep love and felt understood and seen in all the like Gushy amazing things and I I learned more coming out of that, that place of love that finally like propelled me in to the real work, versus like what I Think like coming out of like a bad, toxic one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would imagine. Yeah you know what I mean. Like it was the like, the actual heartbreak, like coming out of love to find it. Yes and I thought that just surprised me right, like you would assume, like the one prior. That was like Everything horrible that could happen in a relationship was happening. Didn't really just like doodly-doo on with life. Yeah, i was kind of stuck in anger, not in love, yeah, but it was like it was. It surprised me like that's. What it took was actually like real heartbreak.
Speaker 3:The gift of the wound. Yeah, wow. I remember saying I just wish Steve was an asshole. Yeah, oh, hashtag Steve, sorry.
Speaker 2:The names have been changed. Yes, to protect the innocence he lives on.
Speaker 3:No, just kidding. No, yes, i remembered, like actually saying that, like it would have been easier if he was a dick. Yeah, because I'm like sitting thinking about the relationship and I'm like, well, that is still exactly what I want, you know, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So so tell us how that led you into this project. Like tell us about it, especially because Rachel doesn't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, rachel.
Speaker 2:I'm so like she's literally like Yeah, so okay, so tell us about that project. So I was.
Speaker 3:You guys are gonna love this. So I was a little lost. I didn't know what to do. So I literally was like all right, god, oh, what am I missing? Like, am I doing something wrong? and Did you? you looked at it as a like in.
Speaker 2:Initially you looked at it as a Insufficiency on your part.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i thought, okay, i, so I just had this thing that was like, everything like and really like I would. I was constantly asking God, like, why would you give me that just to take it away? Yes, why would you, why would you give me a taste of, like, all of these desires that I believe have been put in my heart, these, this dream, this desire for this, like love, romantic love, companionship, all the things right, just to like Have it. Just like gone, like literally gone, like one day, like done, and so I didn't know what else to do. I like reverted to the Bible. I don't want to say reverted, because I I don't want to say it that way but you know what do I do? Okay, i'm gonna get the Bible Turned on the app and got my physical Bible out, did all that stuff, and so what I did it?
Speaker 3:What I ended up finding, actually, was that, you know, i was like okay, well, i'm divorced and this is not like, is it in the remarriage? and so, as I was looking up Bible verses, you find that divorce is not favorable. Right in the holy Bible, jesus, so the the? I think the first one, yes, the first one that I read it was Matthew 19, it's eight, nine, and so basically the gist of it is that the Jewish leaders were like, well, they were trying to stumble Jesus up and they were like, so, like Moses said that you could divorce your wife, but like, do you believe that? and blah, blah, blah. And so Jesus basically was like no, i don't think divorce is good. But circling back to so basically like the end of the story, if you read it, it's he says but for those who can't accept it, you know, like it's it's okay. But I didn't, i didn't really emphasize that part. I was like, okay, it's not good, okay, i get it.
Speaker 3:So then the next, the next verse that I got was Luke 16, 18. It says Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. So if you're divorced, you're an adulterer. This next part is what made me lose my mind says and And whoever marries her, not him, whoever marries her so me, i'm a divorced woman Basically also commits adultery. So God sees me as this adulteress. I can have the best, perfect, clean, god fearing, never done a bad thing in his life. But if he marries somebody like me, he's beneath. You know, he's like this gum.
Speaker 2:He's an adulterer.
Speaker 3:He's an adulterer, he's under your feet, he's not worthy. And I thought, okay, well, why would I want to do that to somebody? Oh wow, why would I want to do that to somebody? Like, who's perfect? Like I don't want to be that person? If that is how God sees me, then what is this about? So that's kind of how this like train started.
Speaker 2:I'm like spiritual crisis, let's go.
Speaker 3:Do you have a sound effect for like train I wish? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, i need a train whistle. Come on, ride a train And ride it. Woo woo, go, ride it. It's the choo choo. Okay, alright, 69 boys. Thank you, she had to. Hey, we're aging ourselves.
Speaker 2:Oh Lord, she's mixing her podcast appearances.
Speaker 1:No sorry.
Speaker 3:That's right, yeah, okay, so we are now in full overt crisis.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to skip over this. I need to I need, i need to set a tone. When you read that and you and you received that that way, when you went to that source of comfort that you had had experienced it as before. Yeah, and then you did.
Speaker 3:you were you mad? I was mad, i was. I was extremely sad because I did take it. I said you know what I know? people who take verses in the Bible and twist it to make it fit for themselves. Westboro Baptist Church. Hey, who also is not listening?
Speaker 2:Because they're not listening for sure.
Speaker 3:Yes, and listen, i think I just I thought okay, so I came to the source expecting God to work in me. God in me was going to do a work and I got it and I took that. And so I was sad, I was ashamed that I was a divorced woman, right Like seeing mom.
Speaker 2:Well, the reason I'm asking is because it makes a difference, because in the last episode we talked about how the struggle with self love, in my opinion, is that way, way, way, way deep, deep down in our bones and our guts. The thing we don't say out loud is that we actually do think that we are special, like we actually do believe that we are set apart for something, for a purpose, for something, someone special, and we are afraid of that. But that's way deep down. Yeah, sure, and I shared the Marian Williams quote about how it's not our darkness that we're afraid of, it's our, like, light.
Speaker 1:Actually that we're afraid of.
Speaker 2:And so I think it's like I'm wondering if, when you got mad, was it because deep down you know that you're not that, that you know and that, like God quote unquote did not create you to feel like that.
Speaker 3:I wasn't there yet. I was mad, i think, because I like had this information and I thought well, why would you put this desire in my heart so fucking strong, like why is it the only thing I?
Speaker 2:can think about. It's like here have this desire, but like suffer without having it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but now you can't because you're a divorced woman and it's just not good. So I think that's why I was originally mad, like So you embarked on a journey. I went on a journey This is how it started. Okay, i was at work, i was crying Like kind of on enough, like it really did affect me. I was like I was like I kept like am I really just like a terrible person? Like am I really just like what the fuck Like why? I'm sorry, i will try to curb that. And so I was talking to my coworker We shared an office that day, of course, and he's like a big Catholic guy And so I was raised Catholic And so like every now and then we just kind of throw jokes and stuff. He's not like pushing or anything. And I just turned my chair and I said, ken, the Bible says this like what do you believe? And so he was like well, carla, like you can't really believe that God wants you to like not be happy. And I was like well, ken, you're Catholic.
Speaker 2:Oh, Ken, it's in the Bible. What Fuck around and find out, Ken.
Speaker 3:And then I mean and it-.
Speaker 2:There's confession.
Speaker 3:And there's listen, i mean, i feel like, and like he said that, and I think, and obviously most people say that, right, like we already know probably how this ends, because it's like, of course, god in you, god creation has not created you to necessarily suffer, right, most people believe that, most people Right, and so I guess I also was just like oh, it's just because you love me that you would say that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so he said, you know, he said, well, why don't you go talk to Father Chuck? He's like the head of the diocese in our region And I was like, oh, i will, I have a few things to say to Father Chuck. And so it was like as soon as like that happened and he gave me his contact info and I called and I left a message, something in me started to like like a little trickle, if you will. I was like okay, and I really feel like God in me was like okay, let's go. Cause I kind of was like well, like is it gonna be weird? Is this just gonna piss me off? Like, and it was like no, this is it, let's go. And I was like okay. And then from there it was like, oh well, i shouldn't have just talked to a Catholic guy, right?
Speaker 2:How many faith leaders did you end up interviewing?
Speaker 3:So I only got to interview four. I called seven. The Hindu leader did not get back to me. The Mormon I could not find, not a one And listen. it was important that I talked to the leaders, not people of the faith, because they had to come from them, because, like even now as I'm like writing up Like people teaching doctrine People teaching their congregation about these things.
Speaker 1:I thought I could find you some Mormons Right.
Speaker 3:If it's a leader, that's who it has to be right, because, like anybody, you could say, oh, i'm a Christian. And then I was like, well, what's your opinion? Nah, like me. And he said I want it to be like. What are you teaching your congregation? What are you teaching the people Who, if we're going by statistics, 50% of your congregation is divorced and probably remarried?
Speaker 2:Which makes everyone an adulterer. Based on the Bible verse you shared Yeah, so Yes.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, okay, well, how do you want me to? you want me to tell you about Father Chuck first. You want me to go down the list. How do you want that? How do you want the layout? Well, i mean, tell us about Father Chuck.
Speaker 2:First of all, father Chuck, this is your episode.
Speaker 3:We are just here, father Chuck was amazing.
Speaker 2:As a listener. I'm very interested in what Father Chuck had to say about this Listen he's awesome, so I walk in.
Speaker 3:It's the church downtown, the St Thomas Church downtown, and I walk in. I obviously like I get there early, like I try to be like very respectful of their time and that And so I was looking around and I was looking at this file cabinet and there was a like small cork bulletin board And there was a. I have the picture of it. I'll have to like send it to you guys so you guys can see. I took a picture of it because I was like no fucking way, and it was like like account, like come talk to us, like about your divorce and like how you can get through it, and like the support group for people that were divorced, and I was like okay, all ready, this is going to be good Because you know, like it wasn't just like oh, like we don't want to talk about it, we're sweeping it out under the rug, you're What?
Speaker 2:did you say? Were you like hi, i'm Carla, i'm doing an investigative journalism. Yes, like yo father, chuck, i got some beef. Like how did you present it?
Speaker 3:Lucy Liu tell us. Yeah, it was pretty much like that. I asked if I could record him And, like most of them, most of the leaders, the only leader that I did not get to record was the Imam from the Muslim mosque, which I think I didn't ask. I just I was just respectful of his decision. But, like you could always kind of see the questioning in the face, like what is she going to ask me? Like, like is she going to try to trip me up, and so They were like ready for battle? Yeah, so I always started it with my story. You know, like my name is Carla, i am a divorced woman who is looking for this answers. As I was reading the Bible, you know, this is kind of what it said.
Speaker 2:Is this not blowing your mind, rachel? I'm sorry, i'm just like.
Speaker 1:This doesn't surprise me about Carla at all. I'm like this is my friend. My solution was like go eat some mushrooms And trip the log until an alien came and filled me with the okay.
Speaker 3:So the Saibon is not bad for that either. You heard it first, oh Lord. So so just that way they because you could see already like I've got. I'm like I'm like voice recording them, i'm taking notes, i have questions. You know, it was like hard hitting. I'm like this is why I'm doing this. You know, like really, i'm just trying to like figure out why God would give me like this strong desire of my heart just to tell me that I'm an adulteress and I'm not worthy of most things The balls.
Speaker 1:Honestly.
Speaker 2:So what did Father Chuck say, father?
Speaker 3:Chuck was really great And he he was asking me about my marriage because I wasn't married to my girl's dad.
Speaker 2:Well, and technically I'm sorry to keep interrupting you, but technically the, the Catholic specific perspective, i think would be the most. What's the word like? strict? Sure, yes, estrigen, i don't want to say aggressive, but maybe, like the most, very black and white. So that's interesting, okay.
Speaker 3:So really what it kind of boiled down to is he asked me about my marriage and he said did you get married kind of like of your own volition, like? and I said, well, i was 18. I didn't get a proposal. Like he kind of said, well, my mom said that we should do this and and you know, it's probably what's best for us And like you know, he loved me, all that stuff, like I don't doubt that. But it was kind of like getting pressure even from his parents to like do the right thing, right. And so I just kind of laid it out that way And he said, well, technically, if you didn't do it with the Pierce intentions, you want to do it, but he's like we don't even really recognize that. Plus, i was not married in the church.
Speaker 3:So he said, you know, there is, there's an annulment process, not just legally but in the church as well. And so he said, you know, like, if you're worried about it, because I was raised Catholic and did my communion and kind of did the whole thing, he said, you know, you can always go through that process And there's a committee. I mean it is a process, it's a, it's a whole packet that you fill out and, and it's a committee, and it's, and it's really cool cause it's it's a committee formed for the divorce, and one that's like try I wouldn't say argues against it, but like tries to find where they might be able to salvage the marriage. Wow, okay, and so you know, and obviously, if that person, the other person that you're divorced from, also has to do the same process, and they're, it's not like they're served, but they like have a certain amount of time, and then, if they don't, your paperwork still goes in front of the committee, but most likely, they're like well, obviously, this person feels this way And so, and then at that point, as long as you have a Catholic annulment, you can get remarried in the Catholic church.
Speaker 3:Wow, so, so, so you know, it's very interesting because my questions were specifically about marriage, divorce and remarriage. And the first question is how does your religion like? like to? what a scheme does your religion hold marriage? And most of them were like, like, obviously, like in highest team, the highest, i would say, was like the Muslim faith, can you?
Speaker 2:share which specific faiths, like all of them.
Speaker 3:Oh that I interviewed, that you interviewed. Yeah, yes, i interviewed. So Father Chuck, so Catholic, the Imam, the Muslim leader, reverend Matthew, who is just right here at the Rino Buddha Center, and then Rabbi Beth, which he met So in the Jewish faith, so She was Jewish, orthodox, right?
Speaker 2:Not Orthodox, okay, sorry.
Speaker 3:Orthodox is the very strict traditional.
Speaker 2:And then you would. You didn't need to interview anyone in like the evangelical culture because, that's like where you were coming from.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, and I thought so, so I had. So that was another one that I had lined up that just never connected And I thought that and it couldn't be from the church that I had kind of grown up in as a Christian, because they were praying for me this whole time to like meet somebody and be happy and all the things. So I wanted somebody who didn't know me, that would just tell me, based off of their teachings and their like, i wanted no. Oh well, carly, you're a great person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like unbiased Yes, so, okay, so.
Speaker 1:So I mean, like I'm all I know this story and I'm like riveted, i know I'm like I'm really curious about the word especially I was semi-raised Lutheran but then ended up in a Catholic middle school, high school and college, but my college was actually super liberal as well, like, and we had nuns that lived at my high school in a convent and in college and they were super progressive.
Speaker 1:So, I think I have a little bit like different Catholic experience than most people. I actually felt somewhat empowered, but I'm really like the word that you use, the intention behind the marriage or relationship like, is sticking in my brain for some reason, because it's kind of going back to this like how we think, act, speak about ourselves and like what we're manifesting into the world. But like the intention behind marriages, like now I'm like even thinking about all my friends and like family and people that I know are married and I'm like man. unfortunately, a lot of them are unhappy and I'm like I wonder if they could like define the intention of like why they got married or how they got together. Like where did it come from? Was it kind of like this, like this is a situation that we're in and so the intention is like this is just what you do. Yeah, it's been three years.
Speaker 3:We might as well do it Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or is the intention like we are in love and like we're best friends and like we wanna grow together? I don't know.
Speaker 2:that word is like it, just surprised me When she said what esteem, esteem, do you hold marriage? And to ask that of faith leaders who are the original influencers right, is really interesting because it holds a lot of weight. Yeah, so what were your most, what were your biggest takeaways, like maybe your three biggest takeaways.
Speaker 3:My biggest takeaways like, just like, just to like.
Speaker 2:wrap up the whole thing, i think, is like Or maybe like the most surprising, like what's the first off, what surprised you the most, and then your biggest takeaway.
Speaker 3:I think, I mean, obviously I think that the Muslim interview was, I would say, probably my favorite. Really Yes, because. So the questions I ask are like that's the first question. The next one is like is there any counseling? Like, like, do you, do you Like a pre-marriage?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you set your people up for success somehow?
Speaker 3:Okay, is there anything like that they have to do after marriage, like what's a traditional ceremony, look like What's you know? it's like if somebody wants to get divorced, how do they go about that? Are they then excommunicated? Is there like penance to come back in to the church? Or like are there, i mean, or you know, like, if you're not familiar with penance like are there steps or is there like a ritual that somebody has to perform?
Speaker 3:I'm like what's the loophole, right, right, and then like, obviously at that point, if somebody in your congregation is divorced, would you recognize a new marriage? Or like, like and like, tell me, like, explain more about things like that. So so I asked the same questions to everyone. But my favorite thing about the Muslim marriage, like the their, how they hold their marriage at just such high value is that even the saying the word divorce because you know like there are people that are like I just want a divorce And it's just like thrown around and it's just so crushing And eventually like doesn't even mean anything, because that person's always saying that they just hate you and they want a divorce.
Speaker 3:Right, but in the religion, even saying it is like doing it And if, if I I am gonna probably get this wrong, but I want to say if that person says it three times, the spouse has every right to go to. First they go to the family and they try to get a counseling thing. If it's not reconcilable, then they will. They will include the Imam and she has he or she. So cause I was asking about myself. So the, the wife has three months to make her decision And essentially that's to make sure she's not pregnant, right.
Speaker 1:Whoa.
Speaker 3:So so then if after three months she's still like nope, that's it And and she is free to marry again, now she, she goes through the same like ritual, like where the family, like the person she wants to marry, they kind of like do this like a courting thing with the family, yeah, like like no, no, alone courting still doesn't out of the age. You know, kind of this group courting And then just like so that everybody else can can also see that this is going to be a there's still like rules, but she's not.
Speaker 2:she's like damaged goods. Nope, she's free.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:I'd kind of like to just meet the family up front too. I'm not gonna lie, yeah Like oh nah.
Speaker 2:Nah, yeah, what kind of dowry you bringing? bud, you got a donkey, or what are you bringing to the table?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm in love. And now I met the family like six months later and it's like, Oh, I got to be with all you guys too.
Speaker 3:Well, but you know, it's so funny because, like, like even Reverend Matthew at the Buddha center, he's like we don't really look at divorce that way. We look at it like and and I remember it, like he did his fingers, like this He was, like he's like people are meant to like come in and out of your lives And sometimes, like you're here And then sometimes, like you're, you like separate right And it's just like in that time you're not meant to be in the life.
Speaker 3:And then sometimes you come back and sometimes it's just parallel And you just and that person is meant to be there And I like, just like remembering his like his hand gestures and like the manure is him and the way he explained it to somebody like me who's not a part of that, and that kind of made me go. Oh, it gave me like a little bit of a breath like of okay, so this just wasn't meant for this time And not that I like bought into it right away. Oh, thank you, you gave me the answer I needed, but it kind of softened the blow of of it being like this thing that I failed at No, yeah, instead of it being a failure, it was like a season, yes, and it came to completion.
Speaker 2:Yes, yep, reframe magic again, yeah, yes. So so what do you think? See, i just feel like she needs to like call vice immediately and create a documentary for this, and like take this to the streets.
Speaker 1:We need to get a hold of those other leaders.
Speaker 2:I guess the Spillier Guts podcast will do.
Speaker 3:Well, i am writing it up now, yeah, oh, good, okay, and it's interesting to like start like the intro as like, like, i write this as somebody who has had a chance to sit and do the work, And you know it's really So.
Speaker 2:How has like? now, of course, i was like with you and we live life together pretty much regularly. So I'm like watching you embark on this journey and like literally blown away as you're. As you're doing it, cause I'm just like the balls on this chick, honestly, but not because of like going and like having the nerve to talk to these people, but more like the balls to just go after truth, truth and ultimate, like ultimately honoring yourself by like, not just like sort of accepting something that felt uncomfortable or didn't feel right, like you embarked on the like finding the truth for you.
Speaker 2:How did that shape how you feel about relationships now And how did that shape where you are at currently, like spiritually, did it affect you? Did you? did you evolve? Did you like you know, cause now you're hanging out with me and I got crystals in my bra and I'm doing Reiki and shit Locked and loaded. You know I mean we've been hanging out anyways, but do you know what I mean? Like, how, how, now that you have had some time to sit on it, like what do you? how do you feel about your findings? How do you feel that has you know if we're talking about self love and how that then carries out into relationships like romantic ones or even just friendships and family beyond. How has that affected you Like? did it ease that anger that you felt when you read that Bible verse the first time?
Speaker 3:Yes, because so, like circling back, like you know, i was able to then, like read that Bible verse. I know it sounds like, oh, i read it and I put, like now, my own emphasis in it. It literally is like Jesus like, says, rather than be tripped up like God's, like you know, like in this verse, jesus was like well, don't you know the scripture? And then he just recites it Hmm, you know what I mean. Like he wasn't like saying, actually, he was like he literally is a G and was like don't you know it? All right, well, let me, let me recite it for you. Yes, recites it.
Speaker 3:And it's like and not everybody can, can accept this, And you know, like, for those who can't, you know, basically, just do your best. I mean, it's just, it's just crazy. So, so what it's done for me is like I didn't need to talk to all those people to know that God that resides in me, the spirit that talks to me and like leads me and gets me through my day. I didn't. I know now that I didn't need to do that to know that, like, i am here to enjoy the fruits.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 3:Right And valuable and worthy, and valuable and worthy and deserving, yeah, and more than enough. You know, when people say I am enough, that doesn't hit as hard as I am more than enough, cause I feel like, like, like doing just enough. You know, like I work my 20 hours and I like it just gives me my insurance and I like go home Like I'm working my 80 hours, i'm working off the clock, i'm more than I'm more.
Speaker 2:So do you feel like starting a journey out of a place of feeling sort of like let down, not just like by the relationship but then by like your faith right that you had relied on, like you got kind of like a slap in the face and like the time you needed it least. Yes, right, yeah. And coming from this place of like really not feeling worthy and not feeling deserving and really struggling with that and grieving that, did that all bring you to a place of truly starting to understand self love now?
Speaker 3:absolutely, absolutely, because I mean in that you know, all of that was stronger years. I was sitting with myself so much and just like going over the things. And you know, you know we recently like talk about identity, which I'm still looking.
Speaker 3:Identity is different than what we're talking about, but but like this, this self, not selfishness, but this self-ness like all of it, like the self love and just like everything that's encompassed and like self. As I was doing that, like I just really feel like God was encouraging me, like all the time, like, yeah, i just keep asking the questions, it doesn't matter how off the wallet is, it doesn't matter that I'm cussing at him, it doesn't matter. It was like like, yes, keep going, keep going and that, just that, that growth, the self growth was like self love, because it was like, oh, look at this whole new thing and and the gift of the wound and just knowing. And now, like in this, like this last person that I tried to date, like it was like because I knew, because I knew what I deserved, because I love myself and I want XYZ, not not even as an expectation on somebody else, but for myself and for my life.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was like no, something is not right here well, let me tell you, as a bizer number one listener bitch, a totally different energy. This last boy did not stand a chance. Yo, i was like see ya, nice meeting you. You're out here and isn't it?
Speaker 1:so? it's so interesting to me too, that there's, on this whatever we call this, this like journey toward self love awakening, yeah purpose human experience yes, there's meat sack earth school dumpster fire.
Speaker 1:There's no one way to get there right, right, carla even though I just even though I said, carla, like we had we were a lot like very similar paths, but like how we both have arrived to this powerful conclusion yeah, we're was totally different. Yeah, and I think that's why the space can be so hard to figure out, because, like, there's no like this is how you do it, you know. Like it's not like fitness, where you're like, just you know, eat a little more protein and move a little bit more. Like there's so many routes that you can take and, honestly, part of it is like finding what that is a lot of work it's exhausting work, but it's like what we talk about all the time.
Speaker 2:I feel like we get so redundant sometimes because it's like we can talk about fitness, we can talk about dating, we can talk about personal growth and goals, we can talk about friendships.
Speaker 2:We get all of the things end up back here. Yeah, it all ends up back here with like, basically all inward, and then once you start to get that sorted and you really, you gain momentum right when you really and and the self-love thing feels so uncomfortable because, like I, like I had said before, it's because we're raised in this culture where it's like that's conceited, you're full of yourself. That's what self-love means and that is not it. It is a radical acceptance of the good and the bad, right the gift of the wound. Yeah, i heard both of you share when you both shared your story about how it took this like pain, this loss, this like grief to push you into this like next level and and though I did not experience that like with my, with, like my relationship, i too have like had it's been pain death of self over and over, like humility, humiliation like ego death.
Speaker 2:It's the wound, that is the gift yeah well.
Speaker 3:And then you know it's like Abraham Hicks says, like the negative is good because that's contrast. You don't know that something is bad unless you know what good feels like right. You don't know if something's bad unless you've been. You like oh wait, this is bad because this is not feeling yeah good. How could you know? how could I have known like, oh, car, i know here it is.
Speaker 2:Girls, i'm gonna ask you both this, and Jesse too, because you're still here. Wow, i'm just taking notes for all the men out there all right, you don't have to answer if you don't want for the girls for sure. Jesse everywhere. Yeah, dude, jesse, you're killing it. What would you if you could whisper into the ear of your broken heart itself in 2020 or whenever that was? if you could just whisper a message to her, knowing what you know now, what would you say?
Speaker 3:I mean, i don't want to sound obvious, but like it's gonna be okay, right. Like like, listen to that thing you're pressing, like you already know what you're doing, like I don't have to tell you anything, like you're gonna get there, thank you, thank you, thank you thank you.
Speaker 2:How about you RDP? what would you tell that young little rascally Rachel?
Speaker 1:probably along the same lines let things end. Oh go, this all ends, this all ends. Mmm, i got that tattoo soon after. Actually, you did a quick reminder.
Speaker 3:I love that well listen.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your project with us. What are we calling it? do you have a title? I?
Speaker 3:don't, i don't. I have all those audio files, so I might do like a YouTube thing in conjunction with the like, right? yes, i don't know, i don't know yet, like you know, a Junie to self love? like I don't know, i don't know, i don't know. But okay.
Speaker 2:Well, i am so grateful that you were willing to come on and share it worked out really, really perfectly, as it always does.
Speaker 2:As it always does. Thank you for coming on and spilling your guts. I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of questions about this. So, you guys, if you want to talk to Carla, i'm gonna. We're gonna be sharing her like crazy on our Instagram page, so go and follow her. She's terrible social media, so I'll let you know when her documentary drops on vice and you can expect her on as a guest again some other day. But thank you so much. We love you and we can't wait to see you guys next time.