09- A Safe Space for Self-Expression and Growth in the Ozarks

In this episode, our hosts narrate their experience at their Arkansas retreat and the role they played as leaders of the retreat, realizing the importance of "Holding Space" as a benefit of belonging in such communities.

• [03:52] Last week our hosts were in Mountain Home, Arkansas for a retreat. Arkansas is famous for diamond mining in the US.
• [15:31] Our hosts got to lead a coed leadership retreat. For Rachel, a high point of the retreat was how the men showed up with empathy, openness, and a lot of emotion.
• [17:17] One of the activities at the retreat was to choose a photo that represents your life, expressing why you selected the photo. Although a lot of participants did not like the idea of speaking up in front of others, they got more comfortable with it as the activity went on. Building this skill would be beneficial for many of these individuals as their professions may very well demand it.
• [19:25] Our hosts also noticed that most of the men who stood up to share had a common theme of an apology. This trend is rampant generally among younger men; they lead with an apology whenever they get emotional. Rachel has also experienced this feeling and had to break it because she should not have to apologize for her feelings. Women do the same when on camera but in their case, they tend to apologize for their appearance.
• [28:12] Mandi takes advantage of her platforms to demystify a lot of these spiritual exercises or experiences, helping people understand that these tools are to help them view their lives objectively and look inward. In the end, the goal is to use these activities to help people.
• [30:17] The theme of “Holding Space” is one of the major aspects that makes a retreat special. It plays out during retreats as people develop a sense of belonging within a community. Understanding this benefit, to be able to teach leaders at the retreat about the importance of holding space was truly a refreshing experience.
• [32:16] How would you define Holding Space? For Rachel, Holding Space means being a very engaged listener without judgment, attachment, or expectation. This skill is crucial for leaders, and it has to be practiced and developed. Mandi describes holding space as putting on someone else’s emotions and sitting in it with them.

"It takes literally sometimes just hours for people to become community"

“At the end of the day, regardless of whatever emotion someone is experiencing, they just really want to be seen, heard, and understood”

“Spirituality is explicit”

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

I know everybody loves it when I do that. Welcome to the Spillier Guts Podcast with Charlie and Sam. Just kidding.

Speaker 2: 0:23

No, it's.

Speaker 1: 0:24

Spudess. It's our alter egos, guys. If you listen to a couple episodes back, you know listen, i'm still trying to push the issue, i'm still trying to get people to call me Sam and so far I'm the only one. So there's that. Yep. You know, it's my personal goal to get Jesse to hit the cricket button within the first 10 seconds of recording. So this is going to be great. This is going to be a great episode. What episode number is this, Jesse? No way, babe. Which is what? 999? you said it those days, sweet, listen. Welcome back to the, welcome back to the Spill your guts podcast. I am struggling, listen, people.

Speaker 2: 1:14

You have an audience, i know.

Speaker 1: 1:16

Well, yeah, there is a special guest here today. I'm not going to lie, he's got me a little flustered. Her crush is here. Ginger bearded man is here in the flesh, soak in and everywhere, refuses to be on the microphone. But just so everyone knows he's here judging me, won't do it In the corner, my hubby.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Anyways, He's been on the podcast whether he likes it or not.

Speaker 1: 1:40

Yeah, you've been on. If you listen, you'd know. But that's fine. Actually, don't? I prefer you, don't? He does not See, he does not think I'm funny at all.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Now, listen, we have, we are back. We took a little bit of a break this last week So hopefully all of our listeners out there are caught up with all of our episodes. You know joining the party here because we, we took a little jaunt and we get to talk about that today. Rachel, how the heck are you? Where in the world are you? What's going on? We're back, guys. We got so excited that we overheated the internet and we had some technical difficulties, so Rachel had to call back in. So welcome back to the welcome back. Welcome back to her. It's the welcome back to her.

Speaker 1: 2:31

But I was, i was beginning to tell you that I'm so sad because of this very time. Last week we were together. We were just embracing each other and rocking each other in our, in our little. I don't even know what that means. It's like one week off and I don't know how to talk anymore. But we were in mountain home, arkansas, together last week and that is what we're going to talk about. We're going to do a little retreat recap And I think I'm a little nervous to say this, but I'm going to go ahead and say, i think what might be our last retreat of 2022. But I hesitate to say that because every time I say that, another one pops up and I find myself in some random area of the country. So I mean, this is our life now.

Speaker 2: 3:19

We traveled to the Ozark.

Speaker 1: 3:22

We did. Did you know? listen, i found out something very interesting about Arkansas. Did you know that it is famous for diamond mining? It's like one of the biggest places in the country where you can't where natural diamonds are found, isn't that interesting?

Speaker 2: 3:38

Yeah, we should have stopped and minded, minded, founded. Who knew I was very nervous?

Speaker 1: 3:47

Who knew? I wasn't sure because you know, i didn't know much about Arkansas going into it And I was just. I had a lot of a lot of thoughts and I was pleasantly surprised.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Oh my gosh, i loved it And we felt so. We were in a beautiful Airbnb on like gorgeous property, kind of surrounded by lakes and nature and 7,000 insects.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Dude, the insects were wild. I feel like that happens to us at every retreat. Because didn't we say that about Sedona? I was like why is Sedona a weird like rainforest?

Speaker 2: 4:22

There was like a warthogs and like skunk families When I got stared down by the four Yeah, the Havilena, the Malinas.

Speaker 1: 4:33

The Malinas, which are little like wild pigs that are apparently extremely violent. Okay, and Rachel was like facing off with one and just casually, casually, tells the story as we're like drifting off to bed. She's like oh, by the way, a Havilena crossed my path and snorted at me and tried to charge me and I was like what?

Speaker 2: 4:59

How come you didn't tell me this immediately? I almost died.

Speaker 1: 5:06

So, yeah, so we go to Arkansas and I was just, i was kind of amazed, but it actually truly is so beautiful. But what did we keep saying? I was like, what in the hallmark movie is going on here? Because it just looked like every fall moment that you'd ever want to have, like the trees, like the foliage, the foliage Okay.

Speaker 2: 5:29

The thunderstorms and the brick and the patio.

Speaker 1: 5:33

The southern thunderstorm. Are you kidding? We totally gave ourselves away as like people from other places because, like this storm rolled in like a country song and Rachel and I were like what do we do? Do we need shelter? Like the lightning was just like crazy, like just across the whole sky, and they were like are you guys? okay, we're like this.

Speaker 2: 5:57

We didn't hear at all.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Yeah, This is like a seven level storm and they're like this happens every like very common.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Well, and we thought, like the house, because it's an Airbnb but still owned by the people that let us host And we thought that there was like some interesting energy happening there And we thought, because one of the owners we're, we'll give her Megan. We'll give Megan a shout out, megan hashtag.

Speaker 1: 6:26

That's a southern word we learned while we were there.

Speaker 2: 6:32

So we put our own twist on it. Instead of saying bless, you say bless, i'm so sorry.

Speaker 1: 6:43

It's probably only funny to us. It's fine, i'm enjoying this, but she, we saw it because she was like okay, we got this Airbnb.

Speaker 2: 6:50

It's beautiful She grew up in the area And the house itself. They thought would be like a summer rager party house but turns out like a lot of people that come through and rent out that big of a space. It was for like grieving purposes, like funerals and like things like that. So we thought, okay, maybe like that's why the energy feels a certain way here.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Right.

Speaker 2: 7:19

But then I couldn't let it go.

Speaker 1: 7:20

Right, of course not Rachel's like take it to the Google. Like, listen, bitch. I don't need to learn every energetic imprint of everywhere we ever visit because it stresses me out, but Rachel, she's got to discover every nook and cranny of a place, which I appreciate is probably actually very responsible of you.

Speaker 2: 7:43

I got to know. It's like learning the science behind all the things that don't make sense to me.

Speaker 1: 7:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:48

So what did you find out? So I found out this, especially this like there's this kind of strip of land in the Ozarks, between Arkansas and what's above it, missouri, and there's like six lakes. Is that correct? Is that accurate at all?

Speaker 1: 8:05

I was laughing because I'm like she's asking me as if I know.

Speaker 2: 8:09

Lake of the.

Speaker 1: 8:10

Ozarks is northwest Arkansas. I literally had to look up a map of the United States, even like get a handle on where Arkansas was like when I was flying there.

Speaker 2: 8:21

At one point we did open up our GPS to actually see where we were. I was like, oh, we're basically one state away from the ocean, like I couldn't get out.

Speaker 1: 8:31

I'm like are we close to New Orleans? We're going to Mardi Gras. Well, listen, to be fair, i am a West Coast girl, okay, born and raised in Reno, nevada. Shout out hashtag Reno, famous over there J Patty. So listen out, here on the West Coast we're a lot more spread apart than our that are brethren on the East Coast. So like it just kind of boggles my mind, like when anytime we've been to the East Coast, that you can just like drive to several states in different directions and it's just like not a big deal. Yeah, for us out here it's like a 10 hour drive if I want to go, you know, to, you know anywhere below Nevada. Like we're very close to California, but I mean we're talking like travel time, so I don't know. Though the whole like other half of the country just seems like a mishmash and I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful. It probably does, but it's just too special.

Speaker 2: 9:24

However, my life is unfolded. I've spent the least amount of time in the Bible Belt area. Is that a defensive term? Bible Belt, that's what I've always said. Yeah, i don't know.

Speaker 1: 9:35

No, i would say no.

Speaker 2: 9:36

Sorry, see how much the little time I'm saying I'm blessed.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Bless Anywho. See, it's like a catchall. You know, like you, just like you get 10 times blessed. You offend your neighbor.

Speaker 2: 9:54

Bless Yeah but how Megan says it's so sweet.

Speaker 1: 9:58

I know she's like oh bless, oh, bless, yeah, that's how Megan sounds. I'm like I want to swing a screamo band. Hey, when you don't, when you forget how to podcast, bless, anyways. What did you find? What was going on in that land?

Speaker 2: 10:14

Okay, confirmed, arkansas, missouri. There's a strip of land that has like six legs across it that's also known for being like very rich in what grows there, the diversity of like animals and plants like it's known for that, but historically it also has like some folklore and like fairy and like kind of a little bit of that, and some like very biblical, divinely protected, known as being like a safe space within there to like explore spiritual out, spirituality basically, really, yes, that's interesting. It's back to like prophetic time supposedly. I don't remember all the history, but Well, bless That's, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 11:11

Listen, it's also where you and I got into our first fight.

Speaker 1: 11:18

Oh my gosh, listen. Okay, i know we're trying to retreat recap right now, but this is serious, because this was seriously the first time we've ever gotten like gotten mad at each other. Do you want to tell them why?

Speaker 2: 11:32

Well, i don't know if I can with. I'll try to finish this sentence quick, okay.

Speaker 1: 11:38

It's because we literally could not stop laughing.

Speaker 2: 11:41

We couldn't stop.

Speaker 1: 11:42

We. It was so even embarrassing in the moment, because I was like I literally was getting sore My face, i was getting a headache, and we just which made everything funnier, because you know, when you're like trying to stop laughing and you just like cannot stop laughing, and then like it's like no, seriously, and then we just like kept going and going, And so we learned listen, this retreat, we learned a lot. The first thing is, we might not need to share a bed ever again.

Speaker 2: 12:11

I liked it. I also liked the amount of candy that we had in the bed with us. You're not supposed to tell people, that part We are.

Speaker 1: 12:17

We are fitness and wellness professionals, but you know what? God bless the sweet tart rope. We're trying to listen. Well, we got Abercrombie on deck for a sponsorship And now I'm going to petition sweet tart ropes. Who else? who else we got on the docket? Oh, celsius, celsius, i'm for sure. So does that like say something about my personality? Energetic Abercrombie and sweet tarts and listen, i might need an intervention actually. But no, we were laughing so hard, we were like kids at camp, because you know, it's like we don't ever talk or something right. So we're up at like three in the morning, we're 40 years old, we're exhausted And we can't stop laughing. At some point somebody knocked on our door and was like wanting to come in And we just went completely silent and pretended like we didn't hear them And then we got super scared for no reason and just like laid there in kind of a panic for about 15 minutes And that, honestly, that saved our lives, because I'd hoped to stop laughing.

Speaker 2: 13:25

We were hysterical. I feel like. Yeah, we were so tight.

Speaker 1: 13:28

We were old, we're tired, You know we kept saying that all weekend We're tired. They're like hey, why do we bring you rods out here anyway?

Speaker 2: 13:41

I was trying like hey, i got strongman next weekend I'm out here, oh yeah, we got to talk about that.

Speaker 1: 13:47

Well, the reason we got to go there is because we actually did our first, like we kind of stepped outside of our retreat you know comfort zone right, which is usually focused with a small group, like an intimate group of women And we stepped out of that comfort zone this time And we got to lead a leadership retreat that was coed And it was the biggest retreat as far as like attendees that we have gotten to serve so far. So we actually did learn a lot. What were some of your biggest takeaways?

Speaker 2: 14:18

Well, if you have been a frequent listener you know I've been working through. I think I've kind of moved on from it But I've had kind of like beef with men overall right I love when you say it, because you say men a certain way I do When we talk about that.

Speaker 1: 14:33

She's always like men.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Yes, i know, see, it's still lingering in there, but I'm doing much better And it's because of, like, what men are showing me, like they're capable of and worthy of, and all the things They already are. I just like have a chip on my shoulder about it. But a big thing for me is like OK, we're have this big group of people, we're going to do some of this woo-woo stuff. We're going to talk about feelings, things like that. Like how is this really going to go, especially being led by well, i mean, tyler was there too but led by women.

Speaker 2: 15:09

I didn't know how that was going to go either. And right out of the gate, the very first opening night activity. The men just showed up.

Speaker 1: 15:19

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:20

They were empathetic and emotional and expressed themselves and talked about things that they loved and told amazing little Hoy.

Speaker 1: 15:31

I know He stole my heart Shout out Hoy, can we share the activity? So the activity that actually we didn't come up with this for the first night, which I thought was cool, it was kind of led within the team, but the activity was to choose a photo that represented your life, like your life in a photo. That was the name of the activity And everybody had to share their photo. And then Mike he's laughing at me already Because he has my photo I showed. But you choose a photo that represents your life And everybody got like a minute, two minutes, to stand up and express like why this photo? And wow, i've never, you know, we being in retreats and stuff and leadership like we have, i mean boatloads of different sort of ice breakers and get to know you activities. And man, I've never I haven't experienced such a powerful one like that in a while, because people really like got super thoughtful And, boy, you really just got to know people right out of the gate. People took it very seriously.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Yeah, and I think it was one it was a little uncomfortable to share, even though they were speaking about something that they loved and knew. But I also didn't anticipate. I would say the majority of the group didn't like standing up and speaking in front of a group.

Speaker 1: 17:43

Yes, not at all.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Did not like it, but I felt like as the weekend went on, the more we did that, the more they got comfortable with it, which of course, i love to see, because a lot of them were like young health and wellness professionals and like your leader. You got to be able to stand up and lead a group and run your sessions and be empowered.

Speaker 1: 18:01

Be empowered To people? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Even just like the practice of that was just awesome to see So good.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Well, and you and I both shared we even put it on our. We have a shared note about stuff we want to put on the podcast. This thing is like a long scroll, It's like an antique scroll that just rolls across the floor, And one of the things we put on the note that we both wanted to talk about was recognizing that a lot of the men who were getting up to share were very brave and super vulnerable, But it came always. The common theme was it came with an apology. Yes, Tell me how you noticed that and what you thought about it.

Speaker 2: 18:43

So I noticed, because it's a habit I used to have, and then I also often see with Brendan, my son, and it's when and I see it out in the world a lot too, especially with the younger men that when they get emotional or can't control themselves or are overwhelmed, they like lead with an apology or are emotional and then apologize for it. And I used to be that person And I felt like it was an important habit for me to break, because what am I apologizing for?

Speaker 1: 19:16

Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 19:17

Like. this is how I feel, and so it goes back to again why men Have to have this equity in this space, because what they can't even share, how they feel without Feeling like they need to apologize, like that's not, that doesn't fly with me. It's the same notice that Totally.

Speaker 1: 19:35

It's the same thing. I've noticed, and I don't know if there's like a correlation or what it is, but I've observed that women do that when they're on camera. Women women don't necessarily Apologize when they're sharing emotion, but anytime they have to be on video or in a picture or something, you'll always hear them say, oh, excuse my appearance, or yeah, don't mind this, i'm a hot mess right now, don't look at me. But blah, blah, blah, and I hate that I hear all the time and I think that's so interesting that men Do that with like shield, with feelings, and women tend to shield with their physical, like their appearance.

Speaker 2: 20:14

I actually thought about that when my dad and I volunteered at the senior Olympics Because we were in charge of like registration. And then we take your picture and we put it on your badge and not a single Man had any say, like they didn't care.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Yeah or they listed an express that they cared. But I would say every other woman Like oh my god, i just got off the road traveling. Or like, oh my god, let me know I'm sicker off, let me take off my hat and fix my hair and I was like you're literally an 80 year old Olympian Like you know what I mean. We can't do that anymore and I'm so curious if, like, a lot of that habit happened because Whoever they were around like was unable to hold space.

Speaker 1: 21:00

Absolutely, and that's a big part of what we do absolutely.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Yeah, well, holding space was a huge theme of the weekend and I would say, as we moved into the co-ed Space, where we've been passionate about spiritual equity right, it can't just be women only at the table which we were definitely challenged with a do you mean what you say? As far as that goes because I was definitely out of my comfort zone, which surprised me doing some of our more woo-woo type retreat stuff with the men around I got real, yeah, i got real weird about it and I thought, oh my gosh, how funny, like why, why do I feel like? I was kind of, like I felt Maybe defensive is the word like I was ready. I was kind of ready, i don't know. I just felt like I wasn't gonna be taken seriously.

Speaker 1: 21:50

I guess, yeah, yeah, and that's really not fair, you know, because that's an assumption I had, that I carried into it, and so I was really surprised that that is not what happened actually and I felt, like all of the dudes, even in all the girls too, like everybody again, not a Retreat where the intention was all about like spiritual inward work, but we like wove it into all the other themes of leadership and stuff and even though a couple times I know they got uncomfortable with stuff. They were all really willing to like lean into it anyway and it was so cool to see it gave me 100%, even the Tarot reading too.

Speaker 2: 22:28

I didn't anticipate you because we once we kind of, like you know, introduce ourselves and learn people, and we're like, okay, we might need to pivot or like, be really flexible in some areas, and so you had brought your cars. I don't know, i think you and I were just gonna pull between us.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Yeah and then Kind of, and the guys and girls that kind of separated anyway, like the guys were out doing whatever bro thing, drinking beer on the deck, and like the girls were all just kind of in the kitchen hanging out and The girls all like circle what got to the table and like what the majority of them like wanted to pull a card and learn and like really Learn about it. I was just so proud of them for like taking a step and doing something that they don't really know about, but everyone was just willing, so willing and open to this experience. Whatever we had, yeah, or which I just was so cuz they're a lot of them were so young too, like I felt kind of old there Did you.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Oh yeah, dude Well. I feel old. Everywhere I go, i'm kind of like. I'm kind of like, hold on, it takes me a few minutes to get my walk right. What I get up, i gotta like, gotta like who warm up a little bit. I got a little Limp, i got blisters, i got all kinds of things.

Speaker 2: 23:46

Oh my god. I felt like I felt especially, you know, like Brendon's, like around their age too. I would just felt like I was hanging out with like a bunch of little Brendon's all weekend Yeah, like the kids. We kept saying I'm gonna go with the kids.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Well, you know what I thought too. What was interesting about that it what they were a little bit younger and, like I said you know, kind of unsure how they were gonna embrace the retreat woo-woo experience. But for me also, coming from like church culture, background and being in Arkansas right There's there was a definite layer of like everyone Not everyone, but a majority of the people there were coming in with some some of that also in their background and upbringing, and I felt myself getting like super nervous about like And what it showed me was that I still have some work to do around my own personal comfort in like Showing up as who I am and not and having like no shame or weirdness around that, because that Culturally, is kind of hard to like lean in and be open-minded about some things, right, yeah. So it was a challenge for me to be like Okay, let's do this and and and not try to like hide, and I felt myself wanting to do that, which was Really weird, but it was good for me because I was just remember we went upstairs and I was like oh, you know, this was really hard for me but we did anyway.

Speaker 1: 25:08

And you were like you did something. She wrote. She literally wrote you did something on our podcast note. You did something, period, that's it. That's, that's the, that's the episode. You did it.

Speaker 2: 25:28

You know, what's funny is that I was so relieved you were there, because I don't really have the church culture background, so I was kind of scrambling like How can, how can I pivot? do we need to like? it's kind of like the presenter and me too was like like know your audience, like Yeah, so like how do you do that? But still stay true to like what we believe but, not say like that's what you have to believe. I don't know it's a hard, Yeah, well it was a tricky balance.

Speaker 1: 25:59

It was a great time and space to sort of like lean into it and kind of figure that out.

Speaker 1: 26:05

I think what's interesting too, as we're doing this podcast and all of you guys who are listening with us and kind of following along This journey like you guys all know that we're Definitely not experts when it comes to this like we're figuring all this like spiritual journey stuff out and Kind of bringing you along with us, so like we don't necessarily have these answers, but wanting to make sure that we are respectful and reverent to everyone's beliefs, everyone's faith and I would never, ever want to ever offend anyone or make anyone ever feel uncomfortable, but also like not want to not be true to myself also.

Speaker 1: 26:39

So it was really good for me. It ended up being a great experience for me to like just throw myself to the wind and do it anyways, and I will say that The more and more I get the opportunity to do this, the more I get to at least for the people that I connect with get to kind of Demystify, like what the cards are, and I get, you know, i always tell people like okay, i'll do that. Look, we're gonna do this, but you got to listen my spiel Right, which we're gonna have a whole episode like coming up later where we talked just specifically about this. But you know a lot of people are like oh, that's devil stuff, or oh, it's witchcraft.

Speaker 2: 27:11

Look at my husband right now.

Speaker 1: 27:13

Um, but it's it's really more of like um, it's kind of like what you make it It's it's. It's it's more of like a tool To help, like you kind of like, look up, look at your life objectively. You know It is a, it is a way to sort of just have one of many right for you to sort of connect inward and onward, as I always say. And so you know there's there's definitely more there, like I said later conversation, but what, what a great opportunity to feel what that was going to feel like in a different audience, and I'm so excited we got to do that.

Speaker 2: 27:45

It was definitely a highlight for me. Yeah, it was nice even to that we we had the space to do that because mostly, like when we were organizing it too, i was like, okay, like we're gonna come in and do what we do. And then there was a little more like kind of business operations around it too, which was good. But it was like how do we apply, you know, this empathy, love, woo, woo to helping people like it, it it's all, it's all the same, like we talked about, like helping make better humans, helps make better fitness professionals and then they impact their people and they make better humans.

Speaker 2: 28:23

So it's just kind of like it was really nice to be able to have a little wiggle room and space and maybe even I don't know if we necessarily like messed up, but like you know a space to play and totally sing out totally totally.

Speaker 1: 28:36

I think for me, one of the biggest themes that I felt we kept going back to all week or all weekend and is is sort of emerging as a core value that we have as, like, our partnership, our, our sisterhood here together is holding space and I realize that that's one of the things that makes retreats special.

Speaker 1: 28:56

Like a lot of people are kind of like, well, what goes on at a retreat, and we can like tell them all the different things we do, but it's not like the community thing that happens when we're together and it's like how we kind of marvel at it every time, how it takes literal, sometimes just hours for people to become community, like people who don't know each other, like there's just that human thing in us. Regardless of your beliefs or what you got going on, something happens in or in that intentional space where everybody just like bonds together and community happens. And to be able to teach leaders about the importance of holding space and what that actually means was really really special, because I could tell that that it was.

Speaker 2: 29:41

It was a new thing happening yeah, oh yeah, and when we did kind of our valleys peak, so kind of like the thing that you like, a highlight or thing that you want to go back and work on. You know there's a lot of great highlights. But a lot of people also were like I'm. I'm glad that I came here, because I've never thought about how to put all this body, mind, spirit into like a wellness plan, right, or that they've seen it and they're like well, something's happening there, like I know this is like a special thing and really being able to like capitalize on it like really call it out and show the client.

Speaker 1: 30:16

This is what it is exactly like recognize it and be intentional about it. How would you, how would you, um so like for those, for those who are listening, who haven't been to a retreat, or like know what the hell we're talking about most of the time, because we'd be all over the place how would you explain, how would you define holding space? what does that mean to you?

Speaker 2: 30:36

for me it's just being a very engaged listener and not like trying to solution or judge or tell my own story of the story, like really being present for the people that I'm with, because we don't really get a lot of that anymore. It it could actually be really uncomfortable to like receive that attention too, because how often are we actually like someone is sitting and listening to us and sharing raw things where we're not on the phone, like scrolling and like whatever else? so for me it's like being a very active, engaged listener, without any judgment, attachment, telling my own story and letting people just share exactly how they want, when they want, without expectation.

Speaker 1: 31:32

Yeah, yeah, how important do you think that? uh, that is as like a coach or a leader to be able to do that, oh, that's, that's what, that's people apart.

Speaker 2: 31:42

That that's what like from a trainer to a coach, or from like a master level coach. That's the art, like, that's the. That's the secret sauce that we're not taught really it's just a skill that you have to practice, develop because it's hard. You have to actually practice and do it. Get lots of like reps under your belt and how to really create a safe space for someone to be vulnerable which helps them build trust with you and with themselves.

Speaker 1: 32:13

Exactly a big deal, remember when we were in Sedona and we realized how uncomfortable it was to hold space when, when somebody was experiencing a rage yeah, we were we got to witness a.

Speaker 1: 32:28

There was like a rage activity that was planned and we got to witness some women like feel free to express that if they wanted to and it was pretty jarring how uncomfortable it was for us at first to just really just be in it and not want to like do something to distract ourselves, to make it like less intense and I think, that was like the first sort of nudge we got this year on how important that was as a theme in leadership, like being able to hang in the moment and not like grab your phone and like do anything, grab for anything to like relieve your own discomfort for this for the sake of the person who deserves to be respected and revered in that moment.

Speaker 2: 33:11

Like it was the first time that we really were like hey, this is actually an important part of all this as like, oh my gosh, experience, yeah that was such a big eye opener for me and it was then I realized who I started recognizing type of space or like how do I describe this? like the emotion being expressed, i have different comfort levels. So like anger, sadness, grief makes me want to like run because I'm uncomfortable, feeling that right, but like if someone's coming at me like telling me like a love story or something like that, then I feel like I can.

Speaker 1: 33:46

No problem, i'm right you're sitting on their lap but other people might not like.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Other people might be able to. They feel more comfortable holding space for, like deep grief and sadness, that they know what to do with that that's so interesting.

Speaker 1: 34:03

Like people have like a, maybe a special gifting to one or the other, that's interesting. We should, we should. That's an interesting thing. I don't think more about that. I'm like I wouldn't know which one I'd be more comfortable with.

Speaker 1: 34:14

I would describe holding space and I've I've said this before but I didn't realize that I was describing holding space. But I would describe it as when you're with someone who is having whatever experience they're having, it's like putting on their emotions like a jacket and sitting with it, mm-hmm, like with them, like you're where you just put it on. You just kind of like put it on for a minute and you feel it and you wear it and then, hopefully, with practice and good boundaries and maturity, you learn how to take that off and hand it back, because I learned the hard way. That was also not healthy to take on and absorb people's emotions, but but there is a gifting in like that empathy and being able to really like come down in it with people and, like you said, not fix, not try to soothe, just be there and witness, because I think at the end of the day, regardless of whatever emotion someone's experiencing, they just really want to be seen, heard and understood right like that's the human story.

Speaker 1: 35:16

I mean the time. Well, it was super, super special. I, i just can't, i can't say enough about Ark and saw. Just bless it. You know, can I ask you, ladies, if you're thinking about moving there now? oh, you know I wouldn't. I don't know that I'm moving there, especially with my husband in the room.

Speaker 2: 35:43

But I would be down.

Speaker 1: 35:44

I would be down, down, down to go back tons of times. I loved it there. I love yeah, they got a schlotzke's there. Still, guys, i don't know if anybody cares or knows of what a schlotzke's is oh, i do yeah, and I like I had a fit when I saw schlotzke's and people were like why? I was like I need to go there. They're like this they were done.

Speaker 1: 36:05

That's what I'm not in Mountain Home dog, they have a schlotzke's there and I did not. Good, yeah, dude, and I didn't even get to have one, but that's okay. Well, i gotta go back, so that's fine. And then we did have a good old southern rainstorm, a thunderstorm there, to kind of end our journey there. And it was so fun and we really we realized that this was would be our, our final time seeing each other in person for this year. So we got kind of sad and then we really we calculated how many, how many retreats we've been on this year and we were like, hey, we might need a break.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Actually remember when we said we were gonna take a break, like months ago, and then we did it, and then we were right back on.

Speaker 1: 36:46

Well, listen, next week we're gonna be back to the spill your guts podcast to recap our special episode with our girl, carla, and the conversation that she brought to the table about how does your faith affect your self-love journey, and I think it was perfect because we kind of touched on a little bit of that in this episode. So, no matter where we go, there we are, because the themes of everything follow us everywhere and everything's existential and oh my god. And also as a quick shout out I thought this is kind of random, but a quick shout out to like the past couple weeks I don't know about you, rach, but I've got so many people reaching out to us telling me that they're listening, they are tuning in, they're like in on all our jokes. We actually have to make these reluctant pilgrim shirts.

Speaker 2: 37:30

People are we have to demand, so I just wanted to give a shout out to like all of our listeners out there.

Speaker 1: 37:36

Oh my gosh, i have no idea why, but for whatever reason, god bless you and thank you for joining us along. It was kind of funny we had. We have some new listeners. Some of our friends from Arkansas decided to jump on this crazy train with us, but one of the gentlemen we met kind of was laughing at us. Because we are, we are defined on all the spot. Are all the podcast platforms as explicit?

Speaker 1: 38:05

because I got a trash mouth and all of our episodes are titled like spirituality. And we were like what's the problem? like what? and he was laughing at us because he's like well, how can you be explicit and be spiritual?

Speaker 2: 38:22

and we were like rolling up our sleeves, rolling up our sleeves about this conversation where you saw, you saw our little video clip yes

Speaker 1: 38:30

yeah, well, i'm telling you, we were in, we were in a like Bible-y type area and I was so grateful because it was. It was not like like judgmental, he was more like surprised. And then it opened up this great conversation about actually spirituality is explicit. This thing is messy and if we're, if we're doing it, then you know what we're not gonna try to curate. And can that be the second t-shirt for this show what? what spirituality is explicitly set a spiritual, yeah, we're gonna have a whole clothing line.

Speaker 2: 39:02

Yeah, we need a retail person.

Speaker 1: 39:07

Somebody help us make this happen hey well, thank you so much for dragging me along on all your adventures. Who knows what 2023 is gonna bring. Hey, listen people out there. If you need a retreat, you just just still step down.