In this episode, our hosts describe how faith played a role in their self-love, highlighting the impact of expectations imposed by the church on the lives of many people who struggle to fit in.
Mandi also shares her faith journey and long-hidden talent in Tarot card reading, summarizing what the practice entails as a whole, as well as how it is meant to be used or understood.
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
In this episode, our hosts describe how faith played a role in their self-love, highlighting the impact of expectations imposed by the church on the lives of many people who struggle to fit in.
Mandi also shares her faith journey and long-hidden talent in Tarot card reading, summarizing what the practice entails as a whole, as well as how it is meant to be used or understood.
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
You know you want to dance. We're practicing self control right now. You guys, if you knew how hard it was and here goes the beat, spill your guts with Sam and Charlie. Back at it again, episode 11. Here we go. I know that it's every single time and it's probably getting old, but I, just when that little beat drops, i just can't help it, i just can't help myself.
Speaker 2:I got to make sure Heath, who came up with that beat, hears it live one time. He doesn't need to listen to the whole thing, although I think he would be into it, But he needs to hear his beat from his beat, lab Dude Heath wherever you are.
Speaker 1:Thank you from the beat lab. We are ever grateful. Well, welcome back If you're joining us. After last week we were talking about our praying mantises and Falcons and depression. Jesse is very excited about his sound effects today.
Speaker 3:Don't give me so many opportunities right off the bat.
Speaker 1:No, we had a huge discussion, about which I'm just going to say I felt so much better after we talked about that and, just like I hope that everybody else was feeling it too and was able to, like you know, kind of join the conversation. How did you feel after we had that big talk?
Speaker 2:Way better. I didn't realize I had so much stuff like sitting like I was sitting with too many things and not talking about it, which, oh, imagine that you need to connect with people and like share your feelings in order to improve your mental health. Weird Right.
Speaker 1:And that's something that we were talking about is like after the, we both confessed our sadness to each other and we decided we had to talk about it and bring it on the podcast, but also like the importance of us walking our spiritual talk, you know, and making sure, like all these things that we talk about, like offering up all these different you know tools for people's toolbox, different modalities, different things we talk about like actually practicing them, and I confess to you that I was like struggling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were not doing our, you know, spiritual reps, Like we weren't, I was just trying to survive because I overextended myself and then, you know, was like oh, I just need more quiet time. and then, but still like didn't do anything to actually help myself other than be alone, which actually probably didn't help my depression in hindsight.
Speaker 1:Well, i kept seeing this thing popping up on Instagram too. It was like I don't know if it was a specific quote from somebody or if it's just like a theme because we talked about how, collectively, a lot of people were actually digging through some heavy energy and heavy feelings. So one of the things I kept seeing on Instagram was talking about how, like a lot of times and I don't know if this is generational right, but a lot of times people sort of recluse and subconsciously pull away to deal with things alone, because often they were left to deal with their feelings alone as kids.
Speaker 2:Totally my mom to this day, and I don't know if it's because I was an only child, but she I would like put myself in my room, Like I would like put myself. You would ground yourself. I would seriously I would like ground myself. and looking back at that, i'm like I wonder what I was. I was probably trying to create like peace and calm, because like something disrupted that and I felt safe and calm in my room alone. Also, putting on several dance performances for all my stuffed animals, as you do as you do which, to this day, we know.
Speaker 2:Movement, you know, improves our energy, but, like dancing in particular, really just hits the changes the game.
Speaker 1:Girl, i know you had that rhythm nation choreography on point. We are women of a certain age. Five, four, three, two, one. Miss Jackson, if you nasty, i'll also be looking. I'll be adding Janet Jackson to our list of celebrity endorsement deals.
Speaker 3:Yes, Let's get her on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Put her on the notes, janet.
Speaker 3:I stand.
Speaker 1:I stand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you can fit us into your schedule.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to out myself a little bit actually on this episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are, because we're talking about spiritual practice, and listen for the record. I told Mandy that she didn't have to share this. However, she is the most talented gifted reader that I've ever come across, and I think she should start a YouTube and become YouTube famous, and then we can leave all this behind together. Yay.
Speaker 1:She is very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:We're going to support her as we do.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so when Rachel says reader, what she's talking about is cards, okay, And the reason why I'm uncomfortable is because if you've been listening or if you know me in life, you know that, uh, that in another lifetime I was actually very steeped in evangelical church culture. I was a youth pastor, along with my husband, for many years, and my faith journey that I'm even on now begin in that space. And so so I said I was going to out myself because last week, when we were sharing our depression, doomsday lullaby, which we still have to tell them about, let's just keep like, like, leading them along, like with that and never explaining what that is. We'll just keep dropping it so that they have to keep listening to find out. We'll tell you next week about doomsday lullaby, or we won't. Um, but you had suggested like, hey, wouldn't it be so cool if we pulled some cards on the podcast and we, and we talked about that And I was like, and I kind of like freaked out a little bit, and, um, so we decided to, we decided to devote an entire episode plot twist, we're doing it.
Speaker 1:Plot twist. We're doing it because actually, like, in our friendship, aside from like retreats and the podcast and all the things that we get to work on together just as friends. One of the things that, um, that we do, uh, when we're supporting each other is, you know, encouraging each other in all of our spiritual practices And do we mean what we say and, gently, you know, holding each other accountable. But one of the tools for me that I use, along with the journaling, the breath work, the meditation, all the things that you guys hear us talk about is I am really into tarot and Rachel wanted to specifically have a, have a card pull and talk about it on the podcast, and I freaked out, so I told her I would submit myself to having this conversation on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think it's important because it's a very um and and Mandy will teed up how she does which is like so beautiful It like resonates with. I've literally never seen it not resonate with someone, someone like, oh, this is what it actually is. But it's a way for us to like kind of get grounded and settle in and even just pause for a minute and maybe think about something, a situation differently, or get a little more insight, or maybe just like confirm. For me, usually cards just kind of confirm what I already know, or like I'm afraid to admit, or like succumb to. You know what I mean. So for me it's like um, i didn't think about when we ran that 40, 40 challenge a few years.
Speaker 2:I don't even know how long it was, it was like a lifetime ago, but something that, uh, a habit that I am going to work on getting back into is I liked pulling a card in the morning and just reading and thinking about it, or even like a, a spirit guide, and then like, holy shit, i saw that animal today, right, So, it's very um, it's a very tangible thing that anyone can do to help them, kind of like, get refocused on their spiritual practice.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, i would say I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1:I think that it's, um, like a one of the best tools to use as like guidance, yeah, and it's fun.
Speaker 1:And it's fun And it's, you know, um, it's controversial for many reasons, right, which we'll get into, but I think that, um, most anybody who with an open mind is always surprised by how, how the cards kind of show up for them and not like you know, weird, like evil, demonic, witchcraft way, right, but it's more in a um like your own, your own awareness, your own intuition, your own energy, your own high yourself sort of shows up in a tangible way. Um, that I have not found happens in any other way. Yeah, you know what I mean, and it's really really cool to like, like you said, to kind of um let it guide your day or or affirm certain things or act like a confirmation. And for for people who aren't really believers, um, it can seem very suggestive, right, because it's almost always right on point, right, and so you can either sort of embrace it as um miraculous coincidence, or that it's just completely suggestive and bullshit, and that's fine either way, i don't care.
Speaker 2:Well, that always goes back to either this is all real or I'm meant to you. But either way it makes us feel better and it's not hurting anything Exactly.
Speaker 1:So. So when I usually I when I read for people, so I'm going to get into a little bit, share a little bit of my story just because it's a I was confronted with my fear around this when you wanted to talk about it on the podcast And I had to kind of go, well, wait a minute, why am I, why am I being weird? And I had to kind of confess to myself and to you that tarot is something that I've still kept so hidden off my social media. Like I have so many people who are like why don't you advertise that, you do readings and, you know, offer this to people? And I'm like, no, oh my gosh, i can't do that. Like it's.
Speaker 1:I've been like a closeted tarot person And I even wrote a blog post a couple months ago about like coming out of the spiritual closet, that kind of like address, some of the stuff. But the truth is like when I was 18, like just fresh, fresh into the adult world, i I basically found myself on my own, like more quickly than I had anticipated. Like I did not have the traditional like oh, you're going to move to college or you're going to. I was like like out on my own immediately And there's like a whole story there that I'll share someday. But I found myself basically like just out there And what? what I found that comforted me was church And I actually started going to this thing called young life, which maybe people out there know about, maybe people don't, but it's like a non denominational youth group type thing And they, they're really big on and you're gonna laugh at this, but it's a stepping stone right They're really big on camps, like youth camps. So you know, i've always been a retreat gal.
Speaker 2:Here we are.
Speaker 1:I've always been a big. I'm a big believer because, you know, when I was 18 years old and basically homeless, the tribe that welcomed me and took me in was was that tribe, and, and it was faith based, and I, you know, i, learned all about Jesus and I got very passionate and I was like this is it? This is it capital T truth. Let's go at purpose right.
Speaker 2:We talked about the, the reality of purpose, last week, and so my entanglement with purpose began when I stepped into church culture, because I and it really did affect who I became as a leader and and and affects me still in ways that still surprise me, but I was just thinking even on our, even even on our retreats, you're still leaning back on even some of those activities and leadership and how to even like tee up the spiritual conversation, like when we, just when we were talking about a retreat in Arkansas, we had a lot of very like devote, a lot of actually diverse, diverse, different religions, and I was so happy to have you there Because I had a different experience right church culture And I was like man, I don't, I needed to.
Speaker 2:I needed someone to help me like change the language and like really make this like accessible to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel included in, Well, and it's tough, right, Like when you get in, and as we kind of you know a few episodes back when we had our girl Carla on and she was sharing about her, her project where she was investigating marriage and all things within the realm of faith, And she kind of was sharing her journey in that And it was kind of leading us to have the discussion about, well, how does faith affect the way you love yourself, Right? And so I would like to pick that back up in this conversation because, to me, the faith that I found when I was 18. And sort of like desperate to find somewhere to belong and desperate to feel like I had a purpose, right Whoo, here it comes, I'm getting emotional already That definitely eventually did affect the way I was loving myself, because the the faith that I felt when I first discovered it was like so pure right And I was all in And I was just like, oh, every hard thing I went through was because of this And I'm gonna I'm gonna take all these hard things that that happened And I'm gonna be able to share with all these teenagers and go, you know, hopefully, you know, share with them so that they can make different decisions and see that there's like a plan for their life and a purpose for their life and this and that. And I did that And I went hard for many, many years a time at my husband. It's like the whole foundation of our marriage And our life was like out of that culture. And so I'm grateful I'm at a place now where I'm I, even though I don't live within that culture anymore. I no longer like have beef with it, Yeah, but I did.
Speaker 1:I did for many years as I was coming out of it, because after about 10 years or so and we had been, we had been married like 10 years and doing ministry and going hard, you know, in that culture, you know, and you get a little older and we started kind of seeing how politics were woven into that And pretty soon you know the pure sort of like, um, what is the word I want? unconditional, just, awesome love and forgiveness that I had felt. That when I first, you know, stepped into that world of faith, started to get chipped at by people's theology and people's, you know, starting people wanting to start arguments about like doctrine and whose interpretation of the Bible was correct, And I mean just and as a young mom, like with little kids, like feeling all this pressure that like you know, if my man was really a godly man, he would provide enough for me to stay home And that would be like the right way to raise your kids. And it was like the pressure that was on us to like live a certain way, you know, and just it started feeling gross, you know. And then I started to really like question some things. And then it was like, well, hey, Mikey, better get a hold of your lady. She's really asking some questions out here And within within church culture. That's totally appropriate.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like you know, as a man, you have to have control of your household or you are, you are falling short. It's a slippery slope. Like I'm using all these buzzwords on purpose, Right, And the greatest gift of all time is that Mike Holden God bless his stubborn Sagittarius ass. He just like refused to like be pigeoned. Hold by that stuff. Like he just even still, he won't even like let me influence him a certain way. Like he believes what he believes And that's it. Like he won't let me put my rakey hands on him. Like he thinks some of my stuff that I do. He just kind of laughs at me, But he totally gives me absolute freedom to be myself and have my own beliefs and my own opinions, And a lot of times our stuff aligns and we have grown and evolved together.
Speaker 1:But when we were about 10 years, married and sort of, we started to feel this struggle I call it the when the string began to get pulled from the sweater.
Speaker 1:That's what I called it, And once you start to pull the string from the sweater you cannot put it back. So I was feeling like all of my beliefs, my foundation, was being like tugged on and pulled on and like kind of torn apart by people who quote unquote loved me, Right, And we're making me question all of these things, which at the time, was devastating. It was absolutely devastating because I had gone all in on that life, Right, Like that was it. I was going to be that, And so when it was questioned and started to get pulled from under me, it was absolutely devastating because I wasn't just losing my faith, I was losing, then, my community and my family, basically because that's who picked me up when I was 18 and basically outside of my family, And so it was really really hard to stand up for what I was feeling, even though it was in like the threat of losing all of that Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'd be really curious because I feel like Catholic in particular like really pushed me away And to the point where I like rejected all spiritual practice and any religion. I was just like no, like I couldn't even honestly hear about it, like I'd be like don't talk to me, like just completely rejected. But it like took that push to kind of like find where I am now, which is like again like my own terms and definition and still forming.
Speaker 2:But I don't think I would have found it without like feeling rejected or even thinking like I'm part of a group that excludes people And I'm all about inclusion, so like I had to come up with my own spiritual work and and what a like breath of fresh air. that was because now it's something that I really enjoy and participate and try to like welcome other people into, and a little bit of an active rebellion against how I felt like I was treated, like you were told to be right, like I hear that like you needed the contrast to sort of push you, to sort of push you into your, your spirituality.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, and I would. I would say the same for me It's been like a pendulum swing, though right, because out of rebellion, right It was I felt like we were. It was terrible too because we were just, we were young parents And we were really struggling financially because, you know, we were trying to like have this lifestyle where I was home with our kids, and so it eventually it was like, okay, well, we can't do that. We live in a world where two incomes are necessary. So I was doing like home daycare in my house And it was absolutely the hardest thing I've ever done in my life And I don't recommend it to anybody. But we did that because we felt like that was what we had to do, to like so that I could be home, right, and Mikey didn't have all the shame around him, like not being this godly man who couldn't provide, and I mean, i know it sounds crazy now, but it was real, real life pressure And then so to be struggling like that and kind of hanging on by a thread and then to have people coming in and questioning, like you know to the point of like who we were even listening to biblically and like I remember it was in this time that I was really starting to question and abandon some of my like faith stuff and move away from it, that I also was getting near to joining the gym And there wasn't a lot of time in between, which is significant for for conversations later.
Speaker 1:But I remember I started writing my blog and even in my early blog, if you go back and look at like some of the stuff I was writing like my first year of blogging, it's very like the language is very churchy And I know now, like in hindsight, that I was really struggling. I was having a faith crisis really And I didn't like the kids on TikTok now call it deconstruction, but I didn't like and everybody's doing it right Like there's whole communities and support around like deconstructing people who are leaving churches, like lots of conversations happening like about that now. But like 10 years ago there was not like I what we were, it's we were falling away quote unquote, you know. And so I remember um in in the earlier blog, like before I joined the gym, but I was really starting to try to focus on like how I could lose weight And I was.
Speaker 1:I knew I was miserable and depressed and the faith piece was a huge part of it, but I wasn't really aware of that yet. So I'm, you know, kind of focusing on like trying to eat different and change, and I didn't realize that I was. It would be leading up to joining the gym and that whole life turn. That was about to happen. That I didn't know.
Speaker 1:But I remember somebody who I respected very much came into but I was also like it was one of the contentious friends that I had right, it was, it was, it was he and he slid into my DMs, on on some, on one of my blog posts, and he was like Hey, you know, I think it's really cool that you know you're doing, you know all this stuff, but you know, you, you really can't take credit for this weight loss. You really, you, you really have to give God the glory and was like scolding me, like scolding me for it, and I was just like, is God, like honestly, that insecure I'm dead ass? I am really. I genuinely am not trying to be disrespectful, but that is the thought I had, like like at this point, like if I cannot like celebrate myself a smidge because I'm such a sinner, and like just should be living all of my days just in complete like, what That's? that sounds real insecure to me, that sounds real narcissistic And I just again, it's the. Once you pull the string from the sweater you can't put it back, and so then the it got pushed into this realm of.
Speaker 1:I ended up having a really really close friend of mine who I'm hoping will agree to be on the podcast later. She made the brave and bold decision to come out and she was a youth pastor that I was basically mentored by, because there weren't a lot of women on staff in those leadership roles in the organization that I worked for And I just, i still look up to her. She's still a wonderful, great friend of mine And she chose to honor herself and be true to herself And I watched her be completely, just decimated. No, within the community that we all served in, and I couldn't believe it. I literally was like this woman was literally washing our feet at a leader retreat that we had been to like a month before she decided to come out, was washing all of our feet and everybody was like in awe of like her genuine humility and wanting to like serve leaders and like mentor us, and then within months, was completely like blackballed And that was all it took. That was all it took for me. I was like, well, i guess I'm an ally.
Speaker 1:And then there was another story after that with somebody else who I love very much, and it was like I started to understand that, like, the people who had the privilege to remain like rooted in those beliefs did not actually love anyone, that was gay, or at least weren't aware that anybody in their life that they loved was gay. Because when you're presented with like actually somebody you love or could be related to it, like is going to go ahead and burn for eternity because they're not following like some random rules you know that nobody can agree on. You know what I mean. It's like it's just at this point, like this stuff starts to like not make sense, and it's like I just really started to walk away from all this and the faith crisis that I did not address then. I then tapped into later.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, it's still present.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I felt like my everything was like kind of pulled out from under me and I did not know what to do.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we talked last week about purpose, right, and I felt like, well, okay, my purpose was to, you know, be missional with how I loved on teenagers And at that point I was speaking at camps and leading kids and I was speaking at women's retreats and leading Bible studies and I like identified as a leader Yeah, missional leader and I and that was like taken away from me because of my allegiance to the, to like the people I loved, right, instead of like the allegiance of the God of the Bible.
Speaker 1:And so I was immediately blackballed and fell into the most depressing and weird time of my life and ended up being the heaviest weight I ever was, because I was suffering underneath all of that, and that's when I began my weight loss story that a lot of people know now, right, and, of course, then stepped right into the missional work of taking the mission to the masses in a different way. I was like this now this, i have arrived, this is it, this is what it was all along, and then I found out later that, also, that had to come down, come down, and we just have one thing No, things, no.
Speaker 1:This is what I'm saying Hey, welcome to spirituality. Everything that you stand upon will be crushed beneath you until you submit, it's great times.
Speaker 2:To picking up that tarot deck?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and the truth is the truth is it's because I really didn't do any of my work right, like I went from what I. What I learned after I, after my time with my team and in the fitness space for a while, is that I went into that with all of my wounding from church that I never healed and worked on. Right, i just went ahead and just jumped right back in, leading and without boundaries and without doing any real deep inner work on myself, and I ended up crashing and burning Right. And and if I had to go backwards, it's like that's what happened to me after after I started, my faith collapse. Right, like I didn't do the work, i didn't do the things, i just jumped into a new thing.
Speaker 1:And, if I go back even further, i jumped into the church stuff without working on my deep inner stuff that I was coming out of from my childhood, right. So I I'm hoping this is translating and making sense, because now here I am, now at 40, looking at this all in in hindsight and I'm realizing that all along it was the same theme. Yeah, and I didn't listen, right, i didn't stop and listen, of course, when I was 18, i just jumped in where I felt welcome and like, felt like I belonged and I just went hard. And then, when that fell apart, i did it again. And when that fell apart, i did it again. And when that fell apart, i started learning how to read tarot cards.
Speaker 2:It's so crazy to me, though, that we will repeat and repeat, and repeat until we learn the lesson, even if it means we lose everything. We will stay on it or even think like relationships, like if I look back and like the type of person I date was the same type of person.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The same type of person And and it's like until I stopped and did the work, I was going to keep having the same results.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's like listen to your life, right. And for me, the same theme was like OK, we cannot show up and just pour ourselves out in reckless abandon for the, for this cause.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because the real the truth is is there wasn't anything wrong with any of it. There's nothing wrong with church or anybody's faith. There's nothing wrong with, like, the passion and purpose I felt when I was in my fitness industry position. There's nothing wrong with any of that. What was wrong was with me. I was. I was trying so desperately to like please say I'm valuable, please say I'm worth something here. Please like this is where I belong. Right, and every time I've put all my stock into a thing that isn't the truth for me, that doesn't come like out of us. I love for myself first. It always falls apart, so it's really no shade to anybody or anything. It's just. This is just my lesson and the way it showed up over and over, and I feel like I'm finally at a point now where I'm like all right, we can love things and we can have passion, but we got to have boundaries and we can't lose ourselves and like seek an identity within these things, like I have to just continually show up as just me.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I don't need to be somebody to be worthy of a space at the table Right, and that's the hard lesson that I've had to learn And so sorry, so I was going to say long story short, but long story long. I know that it's like a, because it's a huge jump right From being like a youth pastor for 10 years to like now I'm doing retreats and we're talking about meditation and we're reading tarot and we're I am, you know, reiki master certified and I have to explain to people what Reiki means. And there is a part of me because I still have this like fear from Christian culture that um, and I know, listen, i know from being in that world how you are trained to argue and combat people with um, opposing views. So I go into all these conversations knowing exactly what's coming for me And it's just exhausting.
Speaker 1:It's exhausting and I avoided it at all costs, because every time it ends in like a loss of relationship, because a lot of times certain people with certain convictions cannot step outside of that because they feel like they're not honoring their beliefs, and so I've had to accept that and respect it, but also I have to grieve it every time. So there's a part of me that it's held back from sharing fully out there, that I no longer align or identify as a certain faith per se anymore, because it gets controversial. People don't want to hear that, like Jesus shows up for me when I'm reading tarot, that Jesus shows up for me in Reiki, because that's blasphemous, right, and I'm just not interested in, like you know, having to explain myself or get anyone's approval on that, like I. But I also am not willing to hide anymore, which is why I'm grateful that you kind of encouraged me to go there tonight, because if we're out here spilling our guts and talking about all this stuff, like I can't reserve that part of myself and be afraid.
Speaker 2:And it's a, it's a space and a talent that you really shine at. Like it's something that, like, people know you for this. And what's interesting is like, even when you tee this up and explain it, you, you, even I feel like still kind of use like a little bit of church language, like you're almost like acting is just like not a channel, but like a funnel, like to a filter through which people can like receive higher messages, or you call them breadcrumbs. So like, as much as anyone might like try to refute this, it's like still, it's still a similar concept, like it's, it's a, it's a way for you to get in touch with a higher self or a universal truth or godliness.
Speaker 1:Like whatever you want to call it. Oh my gosh, i'm so glad you said that because I totally forgot that was one of the things I wanted to make sure I said The pendulum swing, white of rebellion, right Like. So, you know, as I've gone through this cycle of like losing myself in a thing, to have to like let it crumble, to find myself again Right, that's the, that's the lesson that's repeated. This last time it happened to me, i no longer had my quote, unquote faith to go back to right, because I had thrown that out the window, right Like, okay, you don't love gay people, i'm out of here. Like, i don't want it. Um, so I went like the completely opposite way. I could totally go. I was like, all right, well, let's get in some weird stuff, you know.
Speaker 1:And I went and had Reiki because I was super stressed out and I I was like okay, energy That feels. That feels like it makes sense to me, because I know that there's still even though I don't necessarily believe in this, like you know capital T, truth, like God, as I used to thing anymore, like I still know that I'm like a soul. I know there's something else. I know that there is a source of love and I'm trying to understand it and I'm going to seek something. So I heard about Reiki and about how it's, like you know, energy healing and it can help you with like managing your energy And what with what I was going through at the time. I was like, listen, i need anything. I'll put a stone in my bra, i will let somebody do what it like cleanse my aura, dude something right, my life's falling apart. And so I I really went at it in sort of rebellion where I was like all right, i can't go over there to like Bible Jesus anymore. So I'm going way over here, let's see what you got over here. But reluctant, like I'm trying, i sound like I'm being a badass, but like let me just tell you, when I was in my first Reiki certification class, there was a part of me that was like what am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing? Because the indoctrination was still so woven. You know I had a lot of experience with Reiki and I was like I don't even know how to do this, but it was strange, it was like it was like it was so, it was so, it was so, so woven. You know, i had a hard time relaxing into it and really like. And so it was interesting because And I tell this story But we had to do kind of do these guided meditations When we were learning Reiki and There's, like you know, reiki is Japanese in its origin And you got to learn these like congee symbols and all this.
Speaker 1:And so I just, you know, try to be really respectful and not let my like my brain wash brain come in and like sabotage me. And it was interesting because in one of the last meditations, that first time, because I had to do like three separate certs to get to like the master level that I am now It took me like three years, but there he is, there he is Um in in one of the meditations I remember the, the specific symbol that we were like thinking about and learning about, sort of showed up as its Japanese congee Self and then in my meditation it kind of like turned into the dove of the Holy spirit. And I remember I just instantly started crying, like I burst into tears because I felt like I was being shown Like. You already know me, oh, it's just a different, it's just a different name, like. And now I know that to be true. You know what I mean. That same faith, that same pure love, that unconditional love, the like I know, the things that you like will never tell us all, and I still love you anyways.
Speaker 1:That I was shown at 18 is still the same thing that showing up for me now. It's just got different language around it, you know. But, like some people, we can't have that conversation. Sure, you know what I'm saying And so so, and I know that. So I think that there's a part of me that's been like reserving this over here to keep it from being tainted or losing people. Really, it's out of like not wanting to lose people, but I'm on this train that's going 1000 miles an hour. That's not allowing me to retain relationships anymore with people who I have to be fake with. So bye.
Speaker 1:This is a big deal Putting it out in the world, right? So with that I'm going to. I'm going to share a little bit of how Rachel keeps referring to how I teed up. So, at retreats, when we do offer tarot to people who are comfortable with it, I always say to to them, or anybody who I offer a reading to, that you have to listen to my spiel before I'll read for you, because it's, you know, because it does come with all kinds of stigma, right, And I don't know where anybody's coming from, And I know the first time that I was brave enough to actually go get a terror reading, the lady was awesome, but she was like, you know, she was like come on in doll. She's like she's like give me a 15 minutes And if it doesn't resonate, I'll give you your money back. I was just like, Oh my God, what am I doing? It's like whoopie gold person. Oh my gosh, whoopie Goldberg.
Speaker 2:Geez.
Speaker 1:Patrick's Waze. Rest in peace. Yeah, anyways, you know, you don't know where people are coming from, and I like to give the spiel, because this lady went so fast when she, when she gave my reading, that I was like, okay, this was cool, but I didn't understand any of this. Like she just kind of told me like throughout the cards and just assumed I knew what they were, and then I was on my way and I was like, well, i have no idea what just happened actually. So I started learning tarot Like I started kind of studying it just out of my own pure curiosity to understand more of the reading that I got, and I found out that it is literally like a language And that's what I like to tell people. Like it is a. It is a language. Like it is a um a story from beginning to end.
Speaker 1:There are 78 cards in a tarot deck And I'm certainly no expert like anybody out there. I know there's people who literally study tarot. One of the best podcasts I listened to is called the tarot diagnosis And it's two ladies who are actually psychotherapists who use tarot in their practice as like um, kind of what, rachel? what we were talking about as like guide posts and different, like ways to journal, prompt and induce. It's so cool. So if you really really want to learn from like real experts, that's like one of my favorite podcasts to listen to, cause I'm just like I'm just out here learning stuff on my own.
Speaker 1:I'm no expert, but, um, if you lay all the tarot cards out, from beginning to end, they go in a very specific order. This is what I always share with people. It starts with, you know, one card is number one and it ends with another card over here, because it is a story, it is the hero's journey, it is the human journey, the experience that we all have. We're all born and raised and we have dreams and goals and we, you know, go out and we embark on them and we build a thing and it collapses and we rebuild a thing and then we might fall in love and we fall out of love and we have all these little deaths and rebirths and all these things. And it's all there in the cards, like every single, like emotion and experience and different sort of conflict or anything that you can have with people. It's all there. The tarot tells the entire story of the, the humans journey, really, and all it is. When you're looking at tarot is where you are in your story If you're open to it.
Speaker 1:I am literally. I've been doing it for how many years now and I'm still shocked sometimes at the accuracy of what comes up. For people It's pretty wild, honestly. There's nothing I can do to like ever sway or reading any which way, and I've I've never even tried. I'm just kind of surrender and I kind of call myself like I'm just a translator. I'm just here to translate the language. That's it, right.
Speaker 1:So the tarot deck itself is split up into two parts. It's called the major arcana and the minor arcana, and arcana is a Latin word that means secrets. So the major arcana are our major secrets, right, our big themes. Like the big themes, they're like standalone cards. They're kind of like milestone, like important, like pay attention to these moments. And the minor arcana are little secrets. So they're more like our everyday, like our more practical, like day to day interactions, day to day stuff that we struggle with. And those are those.
Speaker 1:Minor arcana are split up into four parts like a deck of playing cards, and so I always like to break that down for people because you know, if you just like start flipping through a tarot deck, you're going to see all kinds of random stuff. You'll see like the sun card or the death card. Those are majors. And then you might also see like a, two of pentacles or three of cups. Those are the the miners. Did I say miners, i meant majors for the other one, miners for the small, so the miners split up into four different decks, just like a deck of playing cards, right? Instead of you know, diamonds, clubs, spades, et cetera. You have the pentacles, which represent earths or, excuse me, yeah, earth signs And also earth energy.
Speaker 1:So think of, like your job, your, um, your physical life, like we're paying bills, we're, we're getting gas, we're going here, we're going there. Earth energy is practical. It's literally grounded down to earth. It's usually focusing on our job, our money, our physical, tangible life. Then you have your swords, which are representative of air signs, but also swords represent our, our thoughts, our messages could be emails, could be a conversation, it could be an obstacle, something that anything basically with the mind that you have to sort of like work through is sword energy. Okay, then you've got your cups, which represent like water signs. So you're, you know, your Pisces, your cancer, your, your Scorpio, which Rachel and I are both.
Speaker 1:And um but, but, but, uh, cups is is water energy, which is relationships, it's our, it's our feelings, our emotions, our relationships. Okay, and then finally, your um wands are fire energy. So fire signs your Leo, your Sagittarius, your Aries, but fire wand energy is like your passion projects, like what lights you up, what are you excited about, what are the things that you literally like? the spark of excitement is wand energy. So I like to tell people all of that, because then with it, just like how the full tarot deck tells the story, right Within each suit there's also a story. So if you were to lay out each one, the ACE, two, three, four, all the way up to the royal cards, they all tell their own story within that element. So then when somebody you know sits down for a reading and they start to see these cards show up, they already kind of have a semblance of like the things that are showing up, if they're open to it. Right, it's not like fortune telling. I'm not Ms Cleo out here, like you can use it is really God, i forgot about her. How could you miss Cleo? wherever you are, bless, i'm going to try to find a way to fit it in every time. But, but the cool thing is is so, like, when we're sitting down for tarot, it's not like, Oh, like I'm going to tell you what's about to come into your future And this is me telling your future. It's not, it's literally like, if you're open to it, this is where you are in your story. If you continue, this is the energy you will be in, right, so it gives you the opportunity to literally in your life, sort of look at a bird's eye view. Right, like you said, when we read cards, you get a lot of confirmation or things that, like you might be avoiding, right, that you know, and they come out in the cards. I always say the cards don't mind their business. Right, like they call you out every time, but it gives you the opportunity to not tell you your future but to pause and to review And like, if I continue this way, is this like really what I, what I, what I want? Is this really like where I'm headed? Like it gives you the opportunity to pause And I think that's what's really special about tarot.
Speaker 1:And another thing that I will share, since I'm on my spiel, is as people get freaked out specifically about, like, the death card or the devil card, you know And I always like to share, that it's not like specifically like, oh, someone's going to die, like if you get the death card, it's not like, oh, death is around the corner, it's, it's right, oh, my God. It's more like. It's more like, you know, like a death card. When it shows up it's like an ending, like an ending is is here, there's an end, and. But with the death card it's always like a renewal or rebirth. It's the ending of something always means the beginning of a new something. So I'm always like, i always tell people before I read like, if you get this card, don't bum out, because some of the artwork is a little ominous. It's not death, it's it's accepting the ending of a thing, right.
Speaker 1:And the other one is the devil card. Specifically for someone like me, coming out of like church culture, that's tough because you're like it's the devil, it's actually not the card. The energy of the card represents the ways that we ensnare ourselves. It's how we get in our own way. When the devil card shows up for me I know that that is significant to somebody is self-sabotaging. Somebody is engaging in habits. They know they shouldn't be doing something. Somebody it might even be like an extreme, like an addiction or something, and that's actually not any of my business. I'm just there to translate, right? I just tell them what the energy of the card is and it's up to you them, however they want to receive it, transmute it, think about it. You know what I mean And so I like to share all of that before we do readings And, as you've seen, everybody's minds get blown and it's wild.
Speaker 1:So there's my spiel, recorded and put out and gonna be put out into the world. So we did it. Shall I pull us a card? Oh, the other thing is too, if anybody's like interested in tarot, whatever like tarot is its own specific thing. It's very specific. Like I said, it has very specific cards. Even if you get like themed decks, like the artwork and stuff can all be totally varied, but like in a tarot specific deck, that is very specific, that deserves like reverence and like respect to learn, and they all have their own like specific story. But then you see all over Instagram, tiktok, everywhere, that there's all kinds of other decks called Oracle decks, which are just like I like to say they're breadcrumb decks, right, like little, just little messages, or like affirmations that don't necessarily have like a very specific message behind them. But those are the ones that I encourage people to start with, because you can like really easily pull one of those cards, like like you were saying, rachel, in your daily practice, like in the morning.
Speaker 1:So I think that that's the kind of card I'm gonna pull for us tonight, so that we don't get like too crazy.
Speaker 3:And just to clarify what kind of deck is this?
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna have Rachel choose one of the. I brought a couple Oracle decks and I'm gonna let her choose one and we're gonna just pull a card for this episode, okay, and then maybe on a later date we'll do a full tarot spread for someone, if I don't chicken out.
Speaker 2:I'm so proud of you already. Oh my gosh, you're cheesing Okay.
Speaker 1:So I brought a couple options. I brought you the angel deck here, okay. Or we got a little spirit guide deck. I like to say this is like the greatest hits of all the faith leaders, jesus himself's in this one, so it's totally Jesus approved. And then I brought this other one. It's the light worker deck. So you got three to choose from, and then we can kind of give people a sample of how this works for me, cause it's different for different tarot readers. But this is how I do it, cause I like people to have as much say of their reading as possible. So you pick which one's it gonna be. Lady Shall, i make Jesse pick a card too.
Speaker 2:Let's do the light worker. I don't know if I've done that one.
Speaker 1:All right, all right. So what I'm gonna do is all my little superstitious stuff. I do Put a little Reiki, a little magic, a little Jesus on here. He's always with me, he's always with me.
Speaker 2:She's knocking. What are you knocking on the deck, or what's happening?
Speaker 1:Listen, it's a very it's ding dong I do. Hey, i'm just clearing it up.
Speaker 3:I do not have the right sound effects for this.
Speaker 1:Knock knock So this specific deck is kind of it's an Oracle deck, so it's like just lots of different affirmations or different like messages, right, and the theme is very woo woo wee, like very new agey. So it'll be nice and like broad for our audience, it'll be perfect. But what I want you to do and this is what I do for anybody I read for, and this this is not traditional at all. This is just the way I do it. That's why I'm doing this Full disclaimer Yeah, full disclaimer.
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna have you, rachel, close your eyes, take a big, deep breath through the nose, out through the mouth. Okay, jesse, i'm putting you on sound effect probing, all right.
Speaker 3:I'll stop, felt right.
Speaker 1:It did feel right, actually, i, i. But so get grounded, whatever that means for you, and I would like you to choose the first number that comes to mind between one and 10.
Speaker 2:Three, all right.
Speaker 1:So I like to do that because I like my people to choose the number of times that I shuffle, and 10, anything beyond 10 is just too much for my forearms. You know what I'm saying? Listen, i go, i work out, but who has the time?
Speaker 3:You need a professional dealer for that.
Speaker 1:Listen, did you see my dealing?
Speaker 3:That's pretty solid Actually.
Speaker 1:Reno famous, but boom hashtag.
Speaker 2:And the cards are bigger too, Like they're not easy to shuffle. I know I was just like smoosh them around the table.
Speaker 1:That's okay. So and we use the cards at all kinds of different ways that retreats to like. Sometimes we just smear them all over the table and let people be guided However they feel. Sometimes we do traditional readings like this and we do it all kinds of different ways. I literally just tell people, like it's not, it's just cardboard, there's nothing weird going on here, it's literally what you choose to make it. So, since we're not in person, how do you feel about me going third card in? Yeah, let's do that. Does that feel?
Speaker 3:right, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay, so here we go, first on air. So the card that you chose, it and we'll put, we'll post this on our Instagram when we drop this episode. It's the mirror and it says who or what is triggering you. Okay, do you mind if I read the little blurb about?
Speaker 3:it. I think that's necessary.
Speaker 1:If we, if we, because if you guys are just listening, you guys can't see. The imagery is of a girl who is bending down looking into some water, looking at her reflection back to back. It's very, very watery water, energy, so hold on. So so each of these decks comes with like a little guidebook with the, with the messages, and, like I said, you take it and leave it, but usually it's right on point. So I'm going to have you choose a card too, so you don't get out of this.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're making you do it today. All right, so here's your message. You tell me if it resonates. It says the filter of our own experience is how we experience life, 90% of the time Through our own projections.
Speaker 1:When someone reminds us of an unhealed experience, we get triggered. Often it's an unconscious thing. People and situations can trigger our mirrors to reflect back to us what we believe to be true about life, the universe and ourselves Mirrors pointing to our shadow and our light. Mirrors revealing the parts of us that are yet to be accepted, witnessed or loved. This card is guiding you to look closely at what experiences or people are currently triggering you and what they could be mirroring back to you. When have you felt like this before? Could they be opportunities to heal something in you, or are they shining a light on something that longs to be witnessed in you?
Speaker 1:This goes for the good and the bad. The good, those who we admire and put on a pedestal If we do not realize that we are attracted to them because we are like them. We will need to cut them down in order to rise to their level. The bad, even those we despise, are envious of and put down If we do not realize that they are also triggering something in us, then it is still yet to be healed and we will remain hurt and wounded ourselves. So I actually think you chose this card for me. I think it's obvious that it's very on point for me. Wow, that is crazy. For the content of this episode.
Speaker 3:So virtual might not work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, actually it does. I actually do a lot of readings over FaceTime and stuff, oh, okay. But I had to be very specifically connected with that person. But that card was definitely for me. I think that the universe is getting a kick out of my discomfort. You guys saw that in real time. All right, Jesse, you feel embraced.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but if you're gonna pick the card, it's gonna be yours again, right? No?
Speaker 1:no.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, Because I'm in the room. It's gonna change Because you're in the room.
Speaker 1:It's gonna change. Totally yeah, oh boy. So what are you feeling? Angel deck, light worker deck or spirit guide deck?
Speaker 3:Let's do spirit guide.
Speaker 1:All right, ooh, okay, okay, okay, All right, same thing. However, you can get grounded. I usually recommend closing your eyes. Take a big deep breath. When you're ready, Let's go. First number between one and 10, that comes to mind Six, Six. He's making me work for it, All right, and you guys can all see here there's no funny business going on. I'm shuffling. Have you ever had a terror reading before, Jesse?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, so I'm not dealing with a novice.
Speaker 3:Not exactly.
Speaker 1:All right, so now I am gonna have him come choose his card because we're here in person. So, and I usually say these Oracle cards are like a bread crumb card, because I usually encourage people to go like research more, whoever comes up right. So I'm gonna have to research this, Yeah or like with the card that I just pulled, like I would invite myself to maybe consider journaling about that later and doing a little inner work on that.
Speaker 1:Jesus gotcha, she's got him Okay so whatever card you feel drawn to hold on, i'm gonna get my camera so I can video this really quick so we can post it when we hear this Oh my gosh, decisions, decisions.
Speaker 1:All right, here we go. So everybody can see. there's no funny business. He's choosing his own card. Go ahead, yeah, you go ahead. Drum roll we have. Of course, it's one I can't pronounce. Dang it. All right, no one will know. Mahavatar Babaji is the spirit leader that you got So right off the bat. I'm noticing that he has the OM symbol, right.
Speaker 3:Which means.
Speaker 1:Right. And it says soul expansion. It says your consciousness is expanding. You understand these connections that you're seeing connected between all things.
Speaker 3:I'm hitting a sound effect on that one.
Speaker 2:Well, and OM too, isn't it? Okay, i'm not a yoga person, but isn't it supposed to be like vibration of the universe, like that's the sound that you make when you meditate, because it's like, is it the same vibration as the universe?
Speaker 1:Right. So I would invite you to do some investigative bread crumbings on that one, because you might. And this is when I tell people when I do readings, like I'm just the translator, right, like I'm not, like I'm not, madam Cleo, i'm not psychic, i would not call moves of anything like that, but these things are coming up. You might find more messaging or got through that through. Yeah, like, in fact I feel like most people do. They usually go off and look stuff up on their own And they might they'll get way deeper into what was actually coming up for them. So here let me read this. So it says Mahavatar, and I'm so sorry if I'm butchering this. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3:We'll clarify it in the future.
Speaker 1:One Mahavatar means great incarnation or avatar, and Babaji means sacred father. Mahavatar Babaji is a deeply respected master yogi who was introduced to the world through the teachings of the Indian yogi Paramashamsa Yogananda again, no judgment.
Speaker 3:no judgment, But Baji as he's called.
Speaker 1:It says but Baji, as he's called for short, is said to be over 2000 years old and able to travel between earth and other worlds. He is said to have an invisible temple in the Himalayas that can appear to those he wants to connect with. Many believe that he is like Christ himself, bringing deep love, acceptance, forgiveness, insight and direction. You may feel that you've retreated from the world recently. Maybe you've not been as active socially or spiritually, but this time of inner reset has really paid off. You are becoming more and more consciously aware of how connected you are to God and all living beings. The sense of union is called yoga. Yoga goes beyond physical ability and into the sense of awareness that's created through spiritual practice, meditation and devotion to the divine. Mahavatar Babaji, the yogic father, is here to inspire the fire of union within you, so that you can understand how your thoughts and actions are creating the waves of energy that are forming your life.
Speaker 3:I am definitely intrigued by this.
Speaker 1:You're going to yoga.
Speaker 3:I'll start.
Speaker 2:Okay, listen. like I couldn't help myself, So I had to look this up to see, this is how it starts.
Speaker 2:This is how it starts, guys. This is blowing my mind right now because we talked about, like, our nervous system, and remember when I talked about the Vegas nerve? Yes, specifically. So saying that when you chant ohm, it specifically stimulates that nerve to help regulate your rest and digest your parasympathetic nervous system that sends signals to your body telling you that you are safe, and so that's one of the reasons that they chanted, or use it as like a to start or end a yoga session, to like really get back to that resting, wow State.
Speaker 1:Wow And see, look, this is the stuff that we can't make up. This is what happens every time. This is actually. Thank you, jesse, honestly thank you for being willing to do that, because it's cool to be able to wrap up this episode with, like this is what I'm talking about. Like it's not. It's not what. What I was led to believe it was when I was sort of in trench and church culture. Right, like it is, it is more. There's these little and really it's not just with cards If you're paying attention, if you're listening to your life, all these synchronicities and coincidences and little messages, even the random songs that come on, that just like simply say specifically what you might need to hear at a certain time. Like you can believe that's coincidental and insignificant or it's not. And so, like with that card, jesse, like if I were giving you full reading, i would say, like dig into that, because you would probably find more waiting for you If you follow those breadcrumbs.
Speaker 3:So I do want to say one thing on air to everyone who's listening Mandy, I was one of those people that kind of questions this process, But how you explained it at the very beginning it brought me in. So I want to say good job.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Shucks.
Speaker 1:Reluctant pilgrim.
Speaker 3:I was a reluctant pilgrim about this.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, thank you, thank you for that. And you guys know, like honestly, that this was kind of uncomfy for me because it's literally like I mean, it's out there now. It's literally, you know, and so I know I've probably got some conversations in my future, but that's just the thing about this. You know, 1982 portal, we just can't live a lie anymore. And, yeah, the card I just pulled, we're not going to talk about that because we're going to be mad about it, all right. Well, rachel Don, thank you so much for pushing me out of my comfort zone, and this time it wasn't on a mountain somewhere on some hiking trail, so at least there's that. Could have been worse, it really could have. I love you so much. Thank you so much for believing in my magic. I'm time.