In a thought-provoking episode of the Spill Your Guts podcast, Mandi Holden and Rachel explored the significance of balancing spiritual practices and capitalism in order to offer authentic guidance to spiritual seekers. Reflecting on our own experiences, they carefully examined the dangers of merging spirituality with capitalism while stressing the importance of remaining genuine and maintaining integrity when providing spiritual services. Our hosts also touched upon the critical role of balancing masculine and feminine energies in the spiritual space and respecting each individual's responsibility for their own spiritual journey. They recommend this episode to anyone seeking a refreshing and balanced perspective on navigating the spiritual realm with integrity and authenticity.
Summary of this episode:
00:01:23 - Checking in on the card readings,
Rachel checks in with Mandi to see how their card readings from the previous episode impacted their week.
0:11:47 - Bonfires and community,
The hosts reflect on the power of bonfires and how they have been a central gathering place for community across cultures and classes.
00:25:01 - The Risks of Extreme Spiritualism,
The hosts express concerns about the potential for unchecked spirituality to lead to irresponsibility in the way leaders handle trauma and healing. They argue that while spiritual practices can be valuable, they must be approached with caution and a focus on doing no harm.
00:39:32 - Labels and Separation,
The hosts discuss how labels such as victim or empath can create separation and how this relates to the empath-narcissist connection. They stress the importance of recognizing that everything belongs to us and that there are no labels except the ones we impose.
00:52:05 - Importance of Radical Honesty in Relationships,
Mandi and Rachel discuss the importance of radical honesty in their relationship and how conflicts can create intimacy if handled correctly. They share how they have learned to communicate effectively and honestly with each other, leading to a deeper connection.
00:57:14 - Finding the Holiness in Hard Experiences,
The hosts talk about how hard experiences can be seen as a gift and can help you connect with others on a deeper level. They emphasize that everyone has their own dark experiences that they can use to help others and be a light on someone else's journey.
The more I go all in on being human, the more I'm getting back. No surprise, we know how that works. - Rachel
The more you surrender to the magnetizing energy of the Earth, the more is happening for you. - Mandi
Connect w/us on Instagram @spillyourguts_podcast_
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
In a thought-provoking episode of the Spill Your Guts podcast, Mandi Holden and Rachel explored the significance of balancing spiritual practices and capitalism in order to offer authentic guidance to spiritual seekers. Reflecting on our own experiences, they carefully examined the dangers of merging spirituality with capitalism while stressing the importance of remaining genuine and maintaining integrity when providing spiritual services. Our hosts also touched upon the critical role of balancing masculine and feminine energies in the spiritual space and respecting each individual's responsibility for their own spiritual journey. They recommend this episode to anyone seeking a refreshing and balanced perspective on navigating the spiritual realm with integrity and authenticity.
Summary of this episode:
00:01:23 - Checking in on the card readings,
Rachel checks in with Mandi to see how their card readings from the previous episode impacted their week.
0:11:47 - Bonfires and community,
The hosts reflect on the power of bonfires and how they have been a central gathering place for community across cultures and classes.
00:25:01 - The Risks of Extreme Spiritualism,
The hosts express concerns about the potential for unchecked spirituality to lead to irresponsibility in the way leaders handle trauma and healing. They argue that while spiritual practices can be valuable, they must be approached with caution and a focus on doing no harm.
00:39:32 - Labels and Separation,
The hosts discuss how labels such as victim or empath can create separation and how this relates to the empath-narcissist connection. They stress the importance of recognizing that everything belongs to us and that there are no labels except the ones we impose.
00:52:05 - Importance of Radical Honesty in Relationships,
Mandi and Rachel discuss the importance of radical honesty in their relationship and how conflicts can create intimacy if handled correctly. They share how they have learned to communicate effectively and honestly with each other, leading to a deeper connection.
00:57:14 - Finding the Holiness in Hard Experiences,
The hosts talk about how hard experiences can be seen as a gift and can help you connect with others on a deeper level. They emphasize that everyone has their own dark experiences that they can use to help others and be a light on someone else's journey.
The more I go all in on being human, the more I'm getting back. No surprise, we know how that works. - Rachel
The more you surrender to the magnetizing energy of the Earth, the more is happening for you. - Mandi
Connect w/us on Instagram @spillyourguts_podcast_
Want a podcast like the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast? Look no further! I'm Jpaddy from Paddybandwagon.com, your podcasting partner. DM or comment "blessed" on our Instagram @paddybandwagon, and you'll unlock a special offer exclusively for fans of the "Spill Your Guts w/Rachel and Mandi" Podcast. Together, we'll embark on a podcasting journey that will captivate and engage your listeners. Visit Paddybandwagon.com and let's make your podcast dreams a reality.
I haven't done it in a while And uh, spill your guss.
Speaker 2:Everybody's favorite. Hello, Did you ever see? I don't know, maybe they still do them like air band competitions, you know, like air guitar competitions. Have you seen?
Speaker 1:those I have. I have not, but I feel like I'd freaking kill it.
Speaker 2:I would every time You guys can't see Mandy, but I can. There's also like movement happening. She's not just singing, She's putting that whole performance.
Speaker 1:It's my signature move.
Speaker 2:I can't help it.
Speaker 1:I love our little beat. Hello, whoa.
Speaker 2:Jesus Is that you POT. No, keep that. You could go back to that.
Speaker 3:But, Hello God, It's my Margaret, The sound effects are going nuts over here. It's like a robot burst.
Speaker 1:So we'll talk about it.
Speaker 3:Hello Jesus.
Speaker 1:Welcome back. You're here at Spill Your Guts podcast with Rachel, mandy, jesse and Jesus. Glad to have you back. Glad to have you back. Oh, my God, i love everything. You guys, hi, how's it going? I wanted to check in with you because last week I bullied you guys into letting me pull a card for you in front of all of our listeners. You know, and I just I needed to check back in. I needed to follow up and see how your week was, if you thought about it at all, if it gave you anything to think about how your week's been. This is kind of like our. now that we're in, we're officially in April. I know it's going to be a couple weeks before everybody listens, but we're officially in April, which means quarter one of 2023 has wrapped up. So we're going to do a little review and a little. You know, we're going to make some statements about quarter two. That's where my head's at. Are you guys cool with that?
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:All right, how about you first, jesse?
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's get this out of the way, since I'm the person without my name on the cover. You don't like being exposed? I really don't. That's why I said behind the mic. but I will say, like I was seeing the bluebirds before, but now I'm this week, i definitely did see them and it made me excited and made me anticipate this, that all my work is translating to something bigger. It didn't happen.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's making me think about it a lot more.
Speaker 1:Okay, maybe like just more awareness.
Speaker 3:More of definitely more awareness.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, i take that.
Speaker 3:So we were talking about being triggered off air. I was definitely getting triggered by bluebirds.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, i'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I was being like waving his fist at the bluebirds.
Speaker 1:He's like pounding on the window. Not again. You're a varmin, It's like. it's like the bird of the state of Nevada.
Speaker 3:It did make me think of bird hub. Is that what we can do? Yeah, bird hub.
Speaker 1:Rachel's making money over there. We're starting only fans for the birds. I think you'd make a little bit of money. I mean, I left it by a coffee. I'd fucking send you five bucks.
Speaker 2:You know what I learned about Utah. Do you know what the Utah state bird is?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, please, let it be something awesome, please, it's commercial break. No, I love this They can hear our wheezing.
Speaker 2:It's a seagull Dude what We are, not ocean, yeah. That's wild Wait what That's, supposedly when the Mormon settlers came to town and colonized the entire area.
Speaker 1:We're going to have a great episode today.
Speaker 2:Some kind of what was that thing in the Bible where all the locus came through A plague. There was a yeah, so all these grasshoppers came through and like, decimated everything, okay, but the seagull population was following it and they came in and ate up all the bugs and they saved the pioneers.
Speaker 3:That needs some crickets.
Speaker 1:The more you know, the more you know. You know what I appreciate you. You know the random shit And you know what I just I feel like there's probably another message in there somehow for us, but we'll have to save it for another day. I think so. Bird hub home of the seagull. Saving pioneers daily Rache. How about you? Thank you for sharing, Jesse, You're welcome.
Speaker 2:I just try. You know what the like? the image stuck in my head from my card was like the bean in the back, like holding the little alien body Right And I don't. Oh, you know what this? oh my God, oh, whoa, i'm about to connect some dots here Real time, real time download.
Speaker 1:Guys, everybody buckle the F up.
Speaker 2:So last year, last point retreat up North. Our next one is coming up in a few weeks. Hide your kids, hide your wives. The beautiful woman who did the cacao ceremony, and I cannot remember it Rihanna, rihanna, rihanna.
Speaker 1:Who just dropped an album on Spotify and iTunes. Ps Little like makeshift shout out right there Beautiful Like earth, energy music. So definitely check that out.
Speaker 2:She partnered. I saw too She partnered with the cacao. That I love, that I've shared on our page before and they did like a collab and I was like, just like so excited that she was on there. But think it was during the cacao ceremony because we all kind of went around and, you know, had brief meltdowns, as you do.
Speaker 1:The average rates Great times, great times.
Speaker 2:And I was talking about, you know, feeling like such an alien, and she really challenged me to like stop that and be grounded and here and present and human. And since then I will like, because I think sometimes I worry that like I use this kind of like alien story to like disassociate, i'm like try to make sense, which probably isn't healthy. So I have caught myself when I think of like I'm not from here, like so this isn't my problem, or like I'm not even with these people, yeah, so like you know what I mean, i catch myself being like nope, you're human and you're on the planet, so gotta stay.
Speaker 2:And so I started thinking about that image that popped up, where I had kind of like shed this alien identity and was working on being more human. And I think the other thing was like a new beginnings and the more like present and in my body and grounded that I get on planet Earth, the more wild things keep coming my way in a good way. So I was just thinking about that this week, like the more I go all in on being human, the more I'm getting back. No surprise, we know how that works.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what I just realized as you were talking just now. Sorry, now I'm interrupting you real time, real time downloads, real time Mandy interruptions. You guys are just. We're hot. The line is hot. Is that a? is that a industry term?
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, well, all with it.
Speaker 1:When you were talking just now, i was thinking of how your word for 2023 is magnet Right, and how you are like. The intention of that was to like be so aware, because energy is a boomerang, so whatever you throw out is going to come back. So, if you are the magnet, you want to be mindful of bringing only those things that are aligned with you and like feel right and good and powerful and you know all the things. And, as you were talking about like, the more human I am, the more grounded, the more like on earth, the more is coming my way. That's like magnetism right, the magnetic pool of gravity of earth, like the more you surrender to it and allow, the more the magnetizing, like energy of the earth is happening for you. How cool is that.
Speaker 2:It's pretty amazing. I get that. Of course, here comes another layer. I was. I was in outside of San Antonio this week for the until death rep party, for our fundraiser.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, met a ton of people and we had I had lots of opportunity to. It was like nonstop social time, like very which I'm not used to anymore My little room with my birds, and so I found myself kind of like leaning back on my tools to stay grounded. I got up, got up early and went for a swim, which was more like a cold ice experience, which was great. I did some breath work and did some Reiki, but had some really amazing you know what is? what is it about? like a bonfire, that just what is it about? a bonfire where people gather around, do such intense conversation every time.
Speaker 1:I feel like there has to be some like very like deep anthropology type answer that goes with this, that like, literally there's an exact like answer to that question, but I would, based on a little teeny bit of what I know, that I can assume is like is there anything more like central to the human experience of community than a bonfire Like across cultures, across class?
Speaker 1:you know, like people gather like a meal, Like no matter how meager, right or grand, like people break bread together and people always gather around a fire. That's very, very true. I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2:It's so good. It reminds me of what is it? Candling, that meditation where you like stare at, stare at a flame, like a candle flame, like stuff, like there was just kind of some things. But I had a couple conversations because there was a situation where some people were getting like upset over something that happened And I could tell that it was like trickling, like going throughout the group, like people weren't upset And now suddenly they were And I don't know why. I just felt like, because it was the type of community where I could get a little woo woo and I'm a leader within that group, so I feel like I have permission to just kind of like, you know, preach a little bit. Yes, you've earned the right.
Speaker 2:You've earned the right.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:But I stopped and I was like, hey, like I don't know if you've thought about your energy, but really like what you want to expend, right? So like, if you're feeling upset and angry, that is what you're going to see. That's your experience. That's what you're going to see Everything is going to be angry, everything is going to have friction, like that's the same thing with social media, right Like when I was in my anger period, my social was all also angry.
Speaker 2:Yes, and my friends were all pissed. So it was just like this nice conversation where I felt like I was able to kind of like deescalate the situation and have people become a little more grounded in their body, when all I wanted to do was, like you know, beam me up. You went right in here.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, i'm so proud of you. It's really hard, i think, to like when you're a leader anyway, like leadership is its own thing that I get passionate about, but like leading in the spiritual space is even more layered right because it's easy to sort of take advantage, i think without meaning to, because it's such a vulnerable space And I feel like everybody like it's like sort of new to everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like even people who have been in faith for like a long time, because, like I know people who are still like very like still committed to, like you know, church culture and stuff, who I've stayed friends with, and even there, even in that space, i feel like people are experiencing like a new world. Yes, Because we're living in just a new world, regardless of like where you're at in it And we're all sort of like trying to acclimate, trying to get our sea legs, and it's really interesting. So I'm proud of you for showing up and kind of putting yourself out there, because I think, in like with everything going on in the world, it's easy to just kind of like step back and avoid you know.
Speaker 2:Well, i just appreciated overall. I mean, i met so many people and like maybe it's because I'm putting it out too, but a lot of conversation with men in particular about who like, about them like really digging in. I met this one guy who and a lot of it are their veterans too, but when he got out he was like really struggling, did an Iowa scotch strip and came back but then also like decided to just completely go off the grid for like a year. No, no, like he had a phone for emergencies, but literally just like camped and fished and hung out and like and and found himself like, yeah, i was like, yeah, i'm like one from a man who's experienced a lot, potentially a lot of trauma to go isolate and find peace, like I don't know. I was just really impressed that it seemed like who was like almost, almost a normalized conversation, yes, Yes, dude, i feel that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I feel like this something's happening, like, yeah, you know, like we've been talking about it since we started this last summer, like we could, we, we, we were seeing it happening. We're seeing the momentum. Right, men, especially Jesse, you can attest your token. Woke man over there.
Speaker 3:I'm a man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but.
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 1:I hate using that term woke, because it's been hijacked and like it doesn't mean what when we hear it in the media, doesn't? it's? that's not what it means. But like, to be awakened is to be aware, simply that's it. It should just begin to be aware of just your own human experience, the way that our past has affected us, the way it's affecting our future. It's awareness of all of that, trying to make sense of it, heal it, to make the most of, like the rest of our days. Right And like the most simplest, like across all, like all the things. Right, that's basically what it is, and so it's interesting because, like we talked about TikTok a couple of weeks ago and how like that has brought people together as humans.
Speaker 1:Right To discuss things that were, like so taboo to talk about in culture. right, like psychology and healing and trauma and all the woo woo things and all the you know all the things you're not supposed to talk about Sex, drugs, rock and roll. Right, like politics, religion, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, religion, all the things. But then we find out we have more in common than not, right, and I think women, we are prone, we are allowed to find community wherever we go. Right, that's like almost expected that women just like, will find and build community with each other, but I don't believe that's always been the case for men, and I think what's happening now is that men are finding that they can, that they are acknowledging an awareness of feelings and being able to talk about them in like, where maybe generations before us weren't. Would you agree with that, jesse? I don't want to try to speak for mankind, at least today.
Speaker 3:Well, just to give the audience a little bit of background, all my clients in this are in this realm, but they're female. They're female females dealing with alternative ways for mental health. For men, they're in shamanism somatic breath work all this stuff, but there have been few a couple men that have that are really trying to embrace that within this industry And what I've learned through just recordings with them, talking to them masculine energy has a lot to do with this and breaking down masculine energy versus feminine energy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's why it's so hard, maybe, to get to the masculine side in this avenue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because I thank you, because you're a hundred percent right And I think that what's happening is that true masculinity, like what the buzz word in this realm is called divine masculinity, but that true masculinity is so intimidating because it requires softness, it requires gentleness, which only comes with healing, facing demons, the strength of vulnerability, all those things, and it's all the things that men have been told. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Right, you keep going.
Speaker 1:You're good so far to you that you can't be those things in me as strongman, like you have to be like an alpha with like a big for sure, like in traditional, traditional guys were raised that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, through generations of teachings, conquer hustle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the grind doesn't stop, right, you know.
Speaker 3:And that touches the religious world as well.
Speaker 1:I 100 percent agree, so that has to change as well.
Speaker 3:So it's a very dynamic subject. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:And if you, if you look across and not just with like men who would be comfortable saying their woo, woo right or like have faith or whatever. But it's like, even if you look at, just like the average dude, like who's you know, middle aged, maybe has a young family, maybe doesn't Like their roles within their relationship, within their marriages, within their households, like it's all being like sort of put all out on the table and everybody's looking at it, everybody's talking about it. And I think, for the first time, men are really empowered to be like Hey, actually I have something to say about this, or actually I don't want to be like this, i want to learn how to change, i want to heal, i want to heal like it's really exciting to see that that's happening. And I think that you know when, when, when men can step into their strength, then women can like lay down theirs, that false strength that like we've all had to like kind of figure out how to have. You know, it's a very interesting.
Speaker 1:And if you think about it, in in, like, you know like fizzy, all physiologically, hey, you know like when, when and this has nothing to do with the people's gender, okay, i'm just talking about the energy. That's it. Everybody has masculine energy and feminine energy and we are meant to be a balance, like a yin and a yang and infinity symbol. Like you know, it's supposed to be a give and a take, a push and a pull, just like how, when men and women are together, right, there is a giving and a receiving, a dance not to sound corny, but that's true.
Speaker 1:And so when men are free to soften into the divine feminine energy that they deserve to be seen, felt, heard, with their feelings, emotions, their connection to spirit, and have it not looked at as weak or lame do you know what I mean? like when they are allowed to soften into that, we are allowed to strengthen in a different way. Right, but right now we've all been playing these backwards roles and I feel like you see it showing up in all kinds of different ways on the world stage. Right, like we see it in and all the things we talk about, the politics, the struggle, all the things on show, social, that make us worried and scared and fearful. Right, but like these little intimate moments, these freaking bonfire moments, are happening more than the scary stuff, i think and it's where we choose to focus.
Speaker 1:It's where we choose to not to I'm going to do this to my own damn self right now but it's where we choose to put our faith. Do I have faith in bonfire moments happening with real human beings more than I have in the structures that are supposed to be held in place to save us? yeah, you guys know the answer to that. It's cool, it's cool to be a part of, but it's also and here I go you guys want me to go on my freaking tangent. I get worried sometimes because, like you know, with freedom comes the opportunity for all things to like kind of become their own thing. Right, and so I think that when, when I and I shared about, like, my faith journey on our podcast, but when I left church culture, i was so bummed out by what I was experiencing and the truths that I was seeing within that culture that were like a direct um violation to everything that, like I thought it was about right. So it caused me to like kind of swing my pendulum way to the other side and I got, you know, i went from being super like conservative church culture, like Mandy, to this way over here we're gonna you know I'm gonna learn all this other woo-woo stuff and I want nothing to do with that right, and as I have, you know, been over here in this world for a little while, you know, my pendulum swings, starting to kind of, you know, yin, yin, yang, give and flow.
Speaker 1:I'm coming back into a little bit more balance and I'm seeing that even way over here on this side of things, the potential for it to be misconstrued and and not be what it's supposed to be about is happening on this, on this side too, in this space, and I've been actually kind of fucking angry about it. To be honest with you, i feel like a little bit pissed because it's like, oh, we're all selling snake oil over here on this side too. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:like, yeah, that you and I had that dilemma for a while on. Like can we continue retreats? yeah, because the thought of of monetizing someone's spiritual journey, like it, still makes me uncomfortable, right, um, and you know we talk a lot about accessibility too, like make, like you know, everyone has a right to experience and have this journey and it's just, it's no wild to me. That's why we talk about like it's dangerous to be on on an extreme side. Yeah, like it's not that you have to be in the middle and be neutral, but that's where I've talked about this before. Like I like to hover and kind of circle around, because it gives me room to go up and down this scale.
Speaker 1:Yes, but that's how it should be. Yeah, that is how it should be. You, you, right now, in your own body, with that little alien being that lives in there, in that meat vessel, right, you alone are your own guru. There's no one else coming to save you or me. Right like I'm my own. There's no guru, there's nothing to sell.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I'm saying? it's like, and I think that is there value, like immeasurable value in what these um, things that people have learned, people, gifts that people have. Right, i want to share with you guys an experience I had this last week with somebody actually really super gifted that I spent some time with and got some incredible knowledge from. But when we have giftings, when we have passion, when we have talents in a thing when we were like you know, i'm certified in Reiki, i'm technically a reiki master those hours of study, the hours to get certified, there is value there. I'm not saying that people's time, talent and energy is not of value and people should absolutely like, if you are giving of your time, it is your job, like you should absolutely be charging money and you have to.
Speaker 1:But there is a difference between that. Well, i'm scared to say it. Spill your guts, though. Okay, bitch, come on. It's like. It's like using the spiritual realm to create a new way to participate in capitalism yes, and we're dressing it up as spiritual shit, yes, which then sucks, because, first off, as somebody who used to be in the fitness industry and as a coach, like as somebody who I consider myself to be a leader wherever I go, it's important to have integrity and to like for me to show up real, even though sometimes showing up real is not best for me. It doesn't make me look great all the time, because you have to be honest sometimes, and it doesn't always put us in the best light, but I have found that that never fails me, even even when it seems like it's going to, when I have truly fucked up and I've had to just own it, like you know what I'm saying loud and wrong.
Speaker 1:Loud and wrong all day. But I feel like in order to create a successful business in this system we live in, you, can't you? you have to put all your best feet forward. You have to really create value, right, you have to. And from my experience with people in there with their fitness journey, they know when you mean it or not. People are not done. They know when you're real and when they're being sold something right.
Speaker 1:And so my concern as somebody in this spiritual space who, in my own weird way, i'm a leader in, is like, okay, if we don't have checks, balances, accountability and whatnot, then we're all just running wild with all this information, kind of irresponsibly. Like you know, we can't just be going over and cracking open people's trauma if we are not either being guided or influenced, counseled by people who have you know degree, like clinical people who know what they're doing with people's trauma. Like I have an issue with that. You know what I mean. Like I yes, i believe in the power of holding space and I know that there are incredible leaders who can do that. I myself think that I am somebody who can hold space for somebody in a hard time, but am I responsible to unleash someone's trauma and not know how to like provide them the support they need going forward after that. That gets weird and it gets muddled in the spiritual space and that's something we don't want to talk about. Right?
Speaker 1:yeah, because that's a little vibrational and I'm like have you met me?
Speaker 2:the trauma-informed weightlifting group talks a lot about that. Their kind of slogan is do less harm or do no harm and then do good. So essentially like making sure that you're leaving people exactly as they are and then improving on it, and I think a lot of times when we go through these like spiritual practices. Sometimes leaders think they have to like bring people to their darkest depths.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is what I was just gonna say and then they leave them there.
Speaker 1:Well, and and I'm gonna just say it all, right, i don't know why I'm fucking pussyfooting around, because it's not like Janet Jackson's listening, right, but it's like. It's like because then people, because they're building, they're trying to build something, be someone and build something right, which in by itself is valiant, right, it's, it's worthy, especially if the intentions are to be of service and to help, which I believe I want to. I choose to believe that most people who are doing this, that that is their intention, right, so that's what I'm gonna choose. But but what happens is if, like unchecked, right, and you're just like living in that space, then without even realizing, you start to sort of like take ownership of someone else's healing, okay, and then in order to have, like you know, really good referrals or like reviews, you know it becomes about like you and you having some kind of power or you creating some kind of thing that only you can get at your thing.
Speaker 1:And then I take issue with that, because then it's like you have people who, like myself, who maybe don't have a couple hundred extra dollars a month to go get a session over here or there or, you know, go take an extensive breath with work class somewhere, or even like, come to a retreat like the ones we go to, and then they feel like, well, i can't, i can't do this stuff because I can't afford xyz, i can't participate because, well, i have kids, dude, i can't, you know, fly across the country for five days and I'd love to do this stuff you're doing. I, my heart is like yearning for it, but I just can't. And it's like, and then you, you know, it's like we get excited about these things we get to do, but then it's like realizing that there's people who don't maybe have the opportunity to do stuff, that they feel like they're missing out or they're not worthy of healing or something because they can't participate in these things. And that's bullshit, that's wrong. And furthermore and this is kind of going into, i had I had kind of some downloads I wanted to share.
Speaker 1:This is my my Q one 2023, my Q one review. I had a little bit of a revelation last week, you guys, so the like the archetype Rachel, i know you and I can like relate like as an empath, right.
Speaker 1:That's kind of like the, the gateway drug into the spiritual world is recognizing that you are an empath and that there are narcissists and the empaths right, sort of attract the narcissist as like an archetype as adult human behavior is concerned, right, and there's lots and lots of talk about this all over the place about empaths and narcissists.
Speaker 1:And empath And again this is just me paraphrasing, so I don't know the official definition of the word, but an empath, as I understand it, is somebody who is very sensitive, very intuitive, is very empathic, obviously, to other people's emotions, moods, vibes, really good at reading a room and really really sensitive sort of like wants to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, wants to be a helper, wants to be blah, blah, blah, et cetera. And then there's the narcissist, which most people know. That's like somebody who's not any of those things and has a very bottom line that is self-reporting, self-indulging Again my paraphrasing. However, when you kind of dig deeper into that, you realize that the empath archetype is codependence. It's its own toxicity, it's its own people pleasing, like thing, right. And then when you dig into, you know a little deeper into the narcissist, you realize that that is its own thing, right. And we're all sort of playing out all these different roles everywhere, right?
Speaker 1:So the realization that I had last week was that in order to participate in like an empath narcissist story, like, if I identify as an empath, then automatically because of duality, polarity that exists on earth, that's why we're here, right, light, dark, love, fear, good, evil, right. If I identify as an empath, that automatically creates a narcissist for me. If I identify as a victim, there has to be a villain. If I identify, as you know, the empath, the martyr, there has to be someone affirming that all the time, coming at me with that energy that I need to make it true for me. And I'm an empath. So I know, i know.
Speaker 2:Okay, wait, wait. This is actually blowing my mind because I'm just thinking about my. I don't know if I was married for 16 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i don't know if you've ever shared that on the podcast. but I know that Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't really know I was an empath until Mandy, i came into my life and was like Hey, has anyone ever told you you're an empath? I was like what, sorry? After my marriage, my ex my ex was actually diagnosed with narcissism and other things And I had never heard the word codependent either, until I got into therapy right post marriage And the majority of my time spent in therapy was just dissecting, not even our relationship, but understanding the empath and the narcissist like connection right.
Speaker 2:Like the magnetism, yes, yes And, as he was saying that I was just thinking about, like the relationship that I'm in now. I identify as a strong woman and I attracted like a strong man.
Speaker 1:Like literally all poopsies, yeah, poopsies, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I thought, twist turned out to, you know, be an empath, even though he would never admit it.
Speaker 1:Well, i say I say I say recovering empath, right, because I no longer like, look, when I first heard that, like I said, it's the gateway drug, right, it's really set me up to investigate because it wasn't intimidating to me because remember I had had a spiritual you know collapse, so anything that sounded kind of spiritual was a was a no for me.
Speaker 1:So, approaching what I was dealing with a couple years ago when all this started, sort of like gaining momentum for me, it felt safe to pursue and investigate more psychological stuff.
Speaker 1:I want to be mindful and healthy and I want to have healthy emotions and and and and so the like, the empath, narcissist thing felt like safe for me to investigate. And then the more and more I like went down that road, of course, the more and more I learned about. like it kind of opens up this whole other conversation, right, but in the woo, woo sense, right, if we really truly believe, like you've said a couple things today already, the whole thing about magnetizing and calling in, and we've talked about manifestation and you talked about how, what on your socials, right, like when you're angry, when you're upset, when you're furious, that's like all that seems to pop up for you, right, and we know that, specifically on TikTok, there is the specific algorithm whatever you interact with You get you it shows up. so, like, don't interact with anything you don't want to see, right, unless you're like Rachel and you want to raw dog thing and not have any control over it at all.
Speaker 2:That's part of what was that Netflix special that like really freaked my shit out, that talked about how Instagram and Facebook and the social dilemma or whatever it was. And they had, like the two humans, yeah, like, yes, oh my God, after that I was like I know.
Speaker 1:but if you think about it, if you think about it in like a really simple sense, that's what? if we believe in the law of attraction, that's what it is. It's the algorithm. What we give our attention to is what shows up Like in our physical experience, right? So it doesn't surprise me, right Now that you have been healing and you are, you know, operating as this different version of yourself than when I suggested that you might be an empath.
Speaker 2:I literally had never heard that in my life before you brought it up.
Speaker 1:But I also feel like, in hindsight, i'm talking to a completely different person now, and you are to me too. We have just evolved several hundred times right Since then. But I was, but, like, of course, you, i don't feel like that archetype fits you anymore. I would say recovering empath, right, and if that's true, then that means narcissists can recover too, because there's no labels And the only labels are the ones we impose, because I am that. I am.
Speaker 1:The only thing that creates things like jealousy, envy, lack, resentment is separation, that's it. There is no jealousy of anybody else, or resentment, or like. I'm afraid I'm not going to get that, like that lack, feeling, like when's it my turn? Like the only way you can feel that is if you're in separation, if you really come back in into your Kanye brain like, like, like I have to, and you like realize, like, okay, if I am, source, god right In all these cells and molecules, having this experience as Mandy and I believe that you are too, and so is Jesse, and all these houseplants and all the trees, and then there's nothing. I'm not separate. Everything belongs to us, everything's already ours, nothing's wrong, everything's fine, and that is the practice. So, going back to my, my revelation. I was like realizing like you cannot have an empath, you cannot be an empath without attracting the narcissist. So what we identify as is huge. Because if I'm identifying right as someone who is like righteous in my anger right about greed And people in positions of leadership who are taking advantage of that and taking advantage of people for their greed with force, and I'm so I've been so upset about this, like anybody who's like friends with me in real life knows I've been like having a hard time, but I just I realized like, oh my gosh, i cannot combat the thing that's that that is unjust, with guilt, with greed and force. And I realized like for me, it's not the greed of money or status, right, it's the greed of my fucking ego of wanting to be right, right Which, if left unchecked, then we're no different than anything else.
Speaker 1:Which is why in the spiritual community, you know, if we're talking about these like real things and like trying to lead the way of people, to like show up as their most genuine, authentic selves and leading the way of the healing journey, then that's really it. As a leader in the spiritual community, i'm literally closing my eyes because I'm I don't know who I'm talking to, but I'm talking to you out there, if you consider yourself a leader in the spiritual space, the only work to do is within It's inward and then onward, and then people will follow you if you are authentically doing that work, because they will smell your bullshit if you're not. That's it. That's the truth. There's nothing to sell Now. Yes, there are experiences to create, there are things that we can all teach each other and learn, and there should be a value exchange for those things. But, like, if you at any point think that you are responsible for someone else's healing or breakthrough, you're wrong. You are loud and wrong. That's it. And this is why I don't get invited to things. No more, i don't know, i don't know.
Speaker 1:Anyway, thank you for attending my TED Talk. So well, listen, i'll wrap that up with a bow, because really, my big takeaway from all that was now that I have spent, however long exercising my anger and dealing with all the things that feel unfair and blah, blah, blah, big fat ego death over here all summer long. You guys have all summer year long, this whole time we've been doing this podcast, you guys know, my big takeaway is that now I have to let myself soften, right, i have to let my little false ass masculine energy down and I have to find a way and this is more of a confession to everybody here who's listening but I have to find a way to soften my heart towards those people who I feel like don't deserve grace, don't deserve healing, don't deserve freedom, because they have everything, they've taken everything from everyone. So fuck them. And I've been gently shown that that is not the way. So I'm happy that we talked about this.
Speaker 1:This is not how I thought this episode was gonna go, but it's important because that's real and that's what we do here, but also for accountability. You know what I mean. If I'm gonna be out here calling people out, i also have to be willing to say the thing that doesn't make me look great, which is that I'm fucking resentful and I'm a petty jealous ass bitch sometimes. and then I wonder why I feel stuck and why I keep seeing this thing show back up in my life. And it's because I have this resentment that I have not wanted to let go of. And you know what's interesting is, i did.
Speaker 1:I think I've told you this, rachel, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I did this meditation a couple months ago. It was just one, some cool one I found on Spotify and it was about forgiveness and I haven't done it since. I probably should, because I've talked about it a couple times. But I was doing the meditation and she kind of painted I don't even remember the name of the girl, but she painted this picture of like you're sitting you know this whole vibe you're sitting, you have a mug, a warm mug of like tea and it's like kind of sweet and kind of spicy, and she called it the forgiveness elixir okay.
Speaker 1:And throughout the guided meditation she kept suggesting, you know, take another sip and another sip and let each, like sip, kind of like you know, go down in your throat, feel it warm your belly, let it sit, kind of you know, and with each sip it's a sip of forgiveness, right, and this, and that, and this and that. And I just remember, i'm going through and I'm imagining it all in my mind's eye and I'm just going along, going along, and then at some point she asks what would it take for you to be willing to drink the entire cup? And I became enraged. I think I might have even shut it off. And you know what's interesting is, because what came up for me was then I will have nothing. If I forgive, then that's all I've got.
Speaker 1:No leverage But yeah, i'll just let that be quiet and uncomfortable for a second, because that's real And I remember just, and that is how I have felt still since, even though I know in my head and my heart that, like, forgiveness is right. I can like tell myself the reasons why. You know, people hurting people, hurt people I myself have, you know, been hurt and hurt people Like you know, like I can have compassion and empathy for that, my good ol' empath ways, right. But there was something very tangible about, like, if I release this, that's it. There's no, there's no upper hand. I have nothing left right And bitch if that isn't what I have been given, right back to me in my life, like, oh, is that all you have? Then that's all you have.
Speaker 2:Then sit with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if that's what you declare your life is, then that's what you get.
Speaker 2:It's kind of interesting, our like, our like. I kind of feel like I went through anger first and now you're coming along too, which is honestly like I'm stoked for you.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you still want to be my friend. Anybody who read my last blog post was like whoa, my sister, like my sister which weren't many, to be honest, because people are like, oh fuck, man, he's bummed again. I don't want to read this shit. My sister read it, though, and she was like hey, dude, let me read this, it's actually so funny, i have to. She goes hey, are you okay? This is the existential and literal winter that will not end, are you okay? I'm like yeah, i'm fine, it's great.
Speaker 2:Here's what I've learned about anger. Here are my tips for you. Like there are benefits and I remember being in anger, feeling like very supported and protected, like I have my own back, like even when I just you can't see me, but I just like pointed like Jabba's, like I have my own back, like there's something really without that, because it connects you to your actual real feelings and needs and authentic inner experience. It's like I've never honestly felt more connected to my needs when I was stuck in anger Dude And it allows you to not go back into that. We'd call it good girl programming. You don't go back into that. It helps you.
Speaker 1:What's funny is I was like I was like it's the death to the empath is what it is, because being an empath in that traditional sense is denying your anger. Because that we wanna make sure everyone else is comfortable, right? I don't wanna be disrespectful to anybody, i don't wanna make anybody feel put out or uncomfortable, so I'll just swallow this forever, till I die, so that you can, you know, be comfortable and that is over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's protecting you or making you feel more resilient for how you've been silenced and I got really a well you know what I got angry about that. I got really angry this week And I was explaining it to poop see it and I finished and I had a moment where I was like I I never speak more clearly, precisely, say exactly what I want, how I want, when I am an anger.
Speaker 1:I'm like rattling my head back and forth. Yes, this is yes.
Speaker 2:I Never, because I'm, because I'm that connected to my actual wants and needs and I'm saying them Exactly how I'm feeling them. Where is when I'm not? I'm a little bit like Soft or or nicer. So I there are some benefits to anger like you can't stain it forever, but man, i like, i like using it correctly.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Line it in a positive way can be super.
Speaker 1:You just literally put to words exactly how I've been feeling the past couple weeks. I mean even just then, when you were explaining that I can attribute to Mikey and I. You know, the past couple years We have. We're in the best place we've ever been in our marriage. It's like having a weird little second honeymoon right now, like he's literally my best friend.
Speaker 1:People and I know I like say that all the time, but like Like so much more than like before and people are always weirded out by that because they're like oh, don't you work together? Isn't that weird? I'm like no dude, like he's the only reason I still work there. I don't know, i can't go back. Like what would I do all day? I don't know, not see Mikey? No, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:What you just said is true, because a couple of years ago We, you know, as everyone else in the world, when, you know, quarantine first started and stuff like shit got real pretty quick and we were going through some life transitions of our own and We just started being radically honest with each other. I mean, some of our fights were like cray, do you know what I mean? But it's to the point now, since we both, thankfully, i'm so thankful for him, but because he chose to lean into it and I did too, and that's not always the case. Now, if Something's up, if there's like a little vibe and it's like we're off immediately, somebody will just come out and say that fucking, blurt it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, just be like I, literally you'll laugh at this if he listens to this. But he, i don't know, he was just being weird and I was being weird and we were having a weird night and we went to bed and we're just like laying there, like in the dark and I'm like, oh cool, so you're just gonna be a fucking dud, huh, whereas before I would have been all pissy and fucking gameplay, weird girl Bullshit. I would have waited till the next morning and then fucking waited for him to say something. You know, dumb shit. Listen, i'm the queen of dumb shit, i'm the one that does all that. But in the past couple years there's just like no room for that. So, like me, before I would have never like you, just said, clearly, directly, like literally and it. But when it becomes a practice to just live that way, conflict really does create intimacy If it's handled the right way, you know. So thank you for saying that, because that gives me a little more Love for my angry self and what I also have been learning actually and with this because now I'm like, oh, it's the Mandy show I Really am starting to understand that, like this whole thing that we talk about in this big, huge space, right.
Speaker 1:The healing journey, the spiritual journey, the ascension, the blah, blah, blah becoming your best self, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if anybody else resonates with this, but I feel like that In the past I thought well, that means you have to cut out all the parts of you that are gross Right, the parts of you that are not your best self, right? the the like, like death to jealousy, anger, resentment, all those things, ego, you know, all those things that we don't like about ourselves. It's like the healing journey is about like releasing that from you and that's actually fucking wrong. That's not it. That is not it.
Speaker 1:It is about finding those things within the darkest corners and Loving that version of yourself to you, like learning how to believe that that version of you also deserves your love, forgiveness, respect. That version of you deserves to be honored. The worst version of yourself that you've never even shared with anyone, that version of you also deserves to be embraced, loved and accepted for who they had to be when they were making. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yeah, that's it, that's, but that's tough. Thank you for tuning in to spill your cat. Cool, i'll see you guys next week. I Don't know you got any closing thoughts. Our DP we covered a lot of stuff, as we usually do.
Speaker 2:Now I'm just kind of like hyper fixated on anger, just because I always think, like What you just said, any of the things that we're feeling Aren't there to ruin your life, like it's a calling and it's. It's really there to help you See and feel and know your truth. Yeah, if we just were not one-dimensional. We have a wide range and I think a lot of people deny themselves feeling things or make themselves feel bad because anger is Wrong or like for women, a lot of times, especially sadness is more comfortable, but it's actually anger, yeah we're absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I always think about like what my? what my therapist told me one time is that, like, happiness isn't the goal. The goal is to Experience all the things, yes, and let them roll, so you can really uncover, like you know, and live in your truth.
Speaker 1:Amen, sister. I also think that, um, nothing is wasted. Right, that's what we always say nothing's wasted. So I know that, like you know what, and I'll bring a wrap this up with, like you know, the fitness circle back Right, i I did not feel like when I was 430 pounds that it was like my greatest life's gift When I was in that version of me, but looking back on it now I do. I do really see that as a gift for lots of different reasons. True, like humility has brought me The gift of being able to connect with people in a way that not a lot of other people can. Right, it's given me.
Speaker 1:What I'm trying to say is like these hard things that we think are so bad that we want to just like, we want them to disappear or go away or be released into the fire at your moon ceremony, somewhere, you know, like Those things actually are the things that we have to experience to love other human beings Like I could not be anybody who gives a fuck about anybody if I haven't had to experience some of the things I've had to experience, like right now, being somebody who Is a blue collar worker at the bottom of the barrel in a factory with the Falcon. Do you know what I'm saying? like there is a holiness happening there, because I'm Getting to experience something that not a lot of other people get to see firsthand. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like it's my own little bonfire of human connecting, connectedness happening there, right and In the same with you guys.
Speaker 1:Like everybody has those things, those like dark things, that only you've experienced, that only you can take and be able to share with somebody else later on down the road and help them Mm-hmm, like as cliche as that sounds like being the light To someone else's journey later on because of what you had to go through back there. That's how it works, like the wheel keeps turning. So no small feet, guys. This is the work. You don't have to pay for somebody's super fancy course To learn about it all, unless you really want to and you can, you should, but I'm just saying you don't have to, okay, over now I